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By: momof3 on 5/22/09
I don't understand why non-custodial parents are arrested all the time for taking their own child/children from the custodial parent and they go to trial and are sentenced to jail. What is the difference here? He took someone else's children, not his own, and kept them for years and basically gets off free. Where is the justice for the parents?
I don't understand why non-custodial parents are arrested all the time for taking their own child/children from the custodial parent and they go to trial and are sentenced to jail. What is the difference here? He took someone else's children, not his own, and kept them for years and basically gets off free. Where is the justice for the parents?
By: diddlede on 5/22/09
Could have something to do with the fact the Baskin children would not testify against their grandad and the Baskins did not want this to go to trial. Ghosts are better left in the closet sometimes.
Could have something to do with the fact the Baskin children would not testify against their grandad and the Baskins did not want this to go to trial. Ghosts are better left in the closet sometimes.
By: Sameera on 5/22/09
I guess we won't hear his explanation of why he abducted two of his grandchildren for alleged abuse but left the third with the alleged abusers.
I guess we won't hear his explanation of why he abducted two of his grandchildren for alleged abuse but left the third with the alleged abusers.
By: attagirl on 5/22/09
This just makes me sick. That old man deserves to pay for his crime.
This just makes me sick. That old man deserves to pay for his crime.
By: sweetmama on 5/22/09
There is more to this story than we will ever know.
There is more to this story than we will ever know.
By: sweetmama on 5/22/09
I believe the whole grave yard is in this!!!! Not just ghost in the closet.
I believe the whole grave yard is in this!!!! Not just ghost in the closet.
By: Nellie on 5/23/09
This old man should be examining his conscience today. At the very least, he should be doing everything he can to bring about some sort of rapprochement between the Baskin children and their parents. Stealing these children - and their identities - all those years ago has had ramifications which go far beyond estrangement from their mother, father and brothers.
Two families have been divided - and for the sakes of all the members of these extended familes, the past needs to be put into some sort of context. I understand that one of the Baskin children is married and with children of his own. So this whole scenario must be utterly confusing for his wife and children.
Marvin Maple is still the father of Debbie Baskin. He still owes her the care and concern any parent should have for his child. Above all, he owes her an explanation - not excuses, not rationalization - for what he and her late mother did to her family.
Then maybe - just maybe - some healing can begin.
This old man should be examining his conscience today. At the very least, he should be doing everything he can to bring about some sort of rapprochement between the Baskin children and their parents. Stealing these children - and their identities - all those years ago has had ramifications which go far beyond estrangement from their mother, father and brothers.
Two families have been divided - and for the sakes of all the members of these extended familes, the past needs to be put into some sort of context. I understand that one of the Baskin children is married and with children of his own. So this whole scenario must be utterly confusing for his wife and children.
Marvin Maple is still the father of Debbie Baskin. He still owes her the care and concern any parent should have for his child. Above all, he owes her an explanation - not excuses, not rationalization - for what he and her late mother did to her family.
Then maybe - just maybe - some healing can begin.
By: attagirl on 5/23/09
I am usually a forgiving person, but for some reason this case gets to me. There is no way I could ever find any forgiveness for this evil man. His crime is so heinous that it is practically unforgiveable. It would be easier to forgive if he had abducted a stranger's kids, but not his own daughter's kids.
He deserves prison.
I am usually a forgiving person, but for some reason this case gets to me. There is no way I could ever find any forgiveness for this evil man. His crime is so heinous that it is practically unforgiveable. It would be easier to forgive if he had abducted a stranger's kids, but not his own daughter's kids.
He deserves prison.
By: Justus on 5/23/09
Without a trial, we do not know the necessary facts. Maybe he did what he was accused of. Maybe he was protecting the children from abusers.
We really don't know.
This conclusion of the case is more likely a compromise between a defendant who didn't want to risk a more severe sentence and a DA who knew he had a difficult case to prove.
And before condemning the compromise, ask yourself how much more in taxes you would pay so the DA's office has the resources necessary to handle the many cases they compromise on.
Without a trial, we do not know the necessary facts. Maybe he did what he was accused of. Maybe he was protecting the children from abusers.
We really don't know.
This conclusion of the case is more likely a compromise between a defendant who didn't want to risk a more severe sentence and a DA who knew he had a difficult case to prove.
And before condemning the compromise, ask yourself how much more in taxes you would pay so the DA's office has the resources necessary to handle the many cases they compromise on.
By: Spit-Fire on 5/23/09
Marvin Maple got all the "punishment" he deserves. Aren't you all old enough to know that there are ALWAYS two sides to every story?! Shame on those of you who have said such terrible things about Marvin and Sandra (may her soul rest in peace!). I think we can all agree on one thing: people who abuse children are disgusting monsters!!! Can anyone deny that???? Didn't think so......
Marvin Maple got all the "punishment" he deserves. Aren't you all old enough to know that there are ALWAYS two sides to every story?! Shame on those of you who have said such terrible things about Marvin and Sandra (may her soul rest in peace!). I think we can all agree on one thing: people who abuse children are disgusting monsters!!! Can anyone deny that???? Didn't think so......
By: Undecided on 5/23/09
We'll never know the whole story. I trust that the courts and God will both judge in their own arenas. We have no right to interfere.
We'll never know the whole story. I trust that the courts and God will both judge in their own arenas. We have no right to interfere.
By: Spit-Fire on 5/23/09
Thank you "undecided".... I couldn't agree more. The courts have made their decision. As for God, I personally believe He understands why the Maples did what they felt they needed to do, which was save those kids from a fate worse than death. And they did an exceptionally good job at raising them!
Thank you "undecided".... I couldn't agree more. The courts have made their decision. As for God, I personally believe He understands why the Maples did what they felt they needed to do, which was save those kids from a fate worse than death. And they did an exceptionally good job at raising them!
By: Sameera on 5/23/09
Somebody should write a book on the case. We have so many questions about this whole affair, and there are so many stories circulating, but we clearly aren't going to get any answers in court.
Somebody should write a book on the case. We have so many questions about this whole affair, and there are so many stories circulating, but we clearly aren't going to get any answers in court.
By: attagirl on 5/23/09
The abuse allegations are all unfounded. Each and every allegations was investigated by the police, DCS and the courts. When one was rebuked, Maples would come up with another one, each one more fantastic than the last.
Undecided, I can't believe you think no one has the right to "interfere." Let someone kidnap your kids and steal their childhood and their very lives and see if you feel the same way.
He is a sick SOB. It is a shame we can't dig up the old lady and burn her, too. May neither of them ever rest in peace. What they did is unforgiveable.
The abuse allegations are all unfounded. Each and every allegations was investigated by the police, DCS and the courts. When one was rebuked, Maples would come up with another one, each one more fantastic than the last.
Undecided, I can't believe you think no one has the right to "interfere." Let someone kidnap your kids and steal their childhood and their very lives and see if you feel the same way.
He is a sick SOB. It is a shame we can't dig up the old lady and burn her, too. May neither of them ever rest in peace. What they did is unforgiveable.
By: Nellie on 5/24/09
The court has taken the pragmatic decision - based on the realities surrounding this kidnapping.
Spit-Fire - kidnapping this was, whatever the Maples' motivation for this crime might have been. And yes, people who abuse children are disgusting. Abducting children from their parents, concealing their wherebaouts for over 20 years, stealing their very identities and in the process indoctrinating them to despise and fear their own mother and father - all that seems pretty much the worst sort of child abuse to me.
However, a reluctance to testify on the part of the children and perhaps a desire - on the Baskins' part - not to make this situation even more intolerable for their families, has brought about some sort of resolution, however unsatisfactory it may seem.
The courts have, for the moment, let the case rest. And as for God - and Spit-Fire's personal belief that "..He understands why the Maples did what they felt they needed to do, which was save those kids from a fate worse than death.."? What a melodramatic, spiteful and above all, silly comment.
Those who believe will know that he is a forgiving God - but also a just God. As the Baskins and the Maples are all believers, so we are told, then they will also know that whoever sinned against these children will ultimately answer for their wrongdoing. Something upon which to ponder.
The court has taken the pragmatic decision - based on the realities surrounding this kidnapping.
Spit-Fire - kidnapping this was, whatever the Maples' motivation for this crime might have been. And yes, people who abuse children are disgusting. Abducting children from their parents, concealing their wherebaouts for over 20 years, stealing their very identities and in the process indoctrinating them to despise and fear their own mother and father - all that seems pretty much the worst sort of child abuse to me.
However, a reluctance to testify on the part of the children and perhaps a desire - on the Baskins' part - not to make this situation even more intolerable for their families, has brought about some sort of resolution, however unsatisfactory it may seem.
The courts have, for the moment, let the case rest. And as for God - and Spit-Fire's personal belief that "..He understands why the Maples did what they felt they needed to do, which was save those kids from a fate worse than death.."? What a melodramatic, spiteful and above all, silly comment.
Those who believe will know that he is a forgiving God - but also a just God. As the Baskins and the Maples are all believers, so we are told, then they will also know that whoever sinned against these children will ultimately answer for their wrongdoing. Something upon which to ponder.
By: Spit-Fire on 5/24/09
If you believe everything you read in the paper, well, I have some ocean front property in Arizona that I'd like to sell you. Ha!!
Brainwashing the kids? No, but it appears that you are. Pity for you.
This is between the Baskins and the Maples, not any of us. What's done is done. Nothing that anyone says on here is going to make one bit of difference in what the outcome is for this case. Justice was served... let it be.
If you believe everything you read in the paper, well, I have some ocean front property in Arizona that I'd like to sell you. Ha!!
Brainwashing the kids? No, but it appears that you are. Pity for you.
This is between the Baskins and the Maples, not any of us. What's done is done. Nothing that anyone says on here is going to make one bit of difference in what the outcome is for this case. Justice was served... let it be.
By: Justus on 5/24/09
Are we forgetting that no evidence of any crime has been heard at trial?
Are we forgetting that no evidence of any crime has been heard at trial?
By: Spit-Fire on 5/24/09
Here is my take on the situation: If the Baskins had never abused the kids, the Maples never would have had the need to take the kids to safety and protect them!
So if people want to continue pointing fingers, point them at the Baskins, not the Maples!
It seems to be over and done with now. So it's probably a good time for the general public to leave it alone and let the family take this all in...
Here is my take on the situation: If the Baskins had never abused the kids, the Maples never would have had the need to take the kids to safety and protect them!
So if people want to continue pointing fingers, point them at the Baskins, not the Maples!
It seems to be over and done with now. So it's probably a good time for the general public to leave it alone and let the family take this all in...
By: Undecided on 5/24/09
attagirl, I know without a shadow of a doubt that God is just and will judge according to His own laws. He is the only one who knows every part of the story. And, He does not need our help in doing that judgment.
As for the court, the newspaper article says that the reason the kidnapping warrants were dismissed is that people made mistakes on the paperwork. Now, the judge has accepted Maple's guilty plea. The case is over.
The man who tracked down Maple, Rutherford County Sheriff’s Office Lt. Bill Sharp, said he supports the court’s ruling. “The DA did what he had to do,” Sharp said. “We hope there will be some resolution between the kids and the parent that the Baskins have been longing for.” I agree.
attagirl, I know without a shadow of a doubt that God is just and will judge according to His own laws. He is the only one who knows every part of the story. And, He does not need our help in doing that judgment.
As for the court, the newspaper article says that the reason the kidnapping warrants were dismissed is that people made mistakes on the paperwork. Now, the judge has accepted Maple's guilty plea. The case is over.
The man who tracked down Maple, Rutherford County Sheriff’s Office Lt. Bill Sharp, said he supports the court’s ruling. “The DA did what he had to do,” Sharp said. “We hope there will be some resolution between the kids and the parent that the Baskins have been longing for.” I agree.
By: Nellie on 5/24/09
Ah yes - the pointing of fingers. Such a favorite pastime, is it not? Seems that the supporters of the Maples have been prime movers in pointing fingers at the Baskins - making all sorts of defamatory allegations against them, hinting at hidden dark and sordid practices, without actually being able to describe them. How strange.
Equally odd is their insistence that, despite custody of the children being restored to the Baskins - after long and painstaking investigation of those abuse allegations showed them to be groundless - the Maples somehow considered that they had the divine right to ignore the court instruction to return the children to their parents and to go on the run with them.
That is abduction - plain and simple. It would be useful, for the sakes of the younger Baskins who still remain the hapless victims of adult selfishness, if the Baskins and Maples were able to reach some sort of reconciliation. But while the Maple coterie continues to insist that the Baskins are the devil incarnate, hinting at depravity without any evidence to back such claims, then there is little chance of any meeting of minds.
The courts investigated the Baskins. They found nothing with which to reproach them. If there are those who have evidence to the contrary - then they should speak now - or forever hold their peace. And let this family heal.
Ah yes - the pointing of fingers. Such a favorite pastime, is it not? Seems that the supporters of the Maples have been prime movers in pointing fingers at the Baskins - making all sorts of defamatory allegations against them, hinting at hidden dark and sordid practices, without actually being able to describe them. How strange.
Equally odd is their insistence that, despite custody of the children being restored to the Baskins - after long and painstaking investigation of those abuse allegations showed them to be groundless - the Maples somehow considered that they had the divine right to ignore the court instruction to return the children to their parents and to go on the run with them.
That is abduction - plain and simple. It would be useful, for the sakes of the younger Baskins who still remain the hapless victims of adult selfishness, if the Baskins and Maples were able to reach some sort of reconciliation. But while the Maple coterie continues to insist that the Baskins are the devil incarnate, hinting at depravity without any evidence to back such claims, then there is little chance of any meeting of minds.
The courts investigated the Baskins. They found nothing with which to reproach them. If there are those who have evidence to the contrary - then they should speak now - or forever hold their peace. And let this family heal.
By: Undecided on 5/24/09
Nellie, please look at your own words and apply them to both sides of the case equally:
"The courts investigated the Maples. They found [little] with which to reproach them." He's now on probation, not in jail.
"Let this family heal."
Nellie, please look at your own words and apply them to both sides of the case equally:
"The courts investigated the Maples. They found [little] with which to reproach them." He's now on probation, not in jail.
"Let this family heal."
By: Nellie on 5/24/09
The courts investigated the Maples' claims of abuse - and found them to be without merit. The fact remains that although Marvin Maple is on probation rather than in jail - he has not been cleared of all wrongdoing.
It is still abduction - and Marvin Maple owes his daughter and son-in-law an explanation for his and his late wife's robbing the Baskins of their children.
It is clear from posts on this and other forums that there are many who clearly feel that Marvin Maple has been handed a "get out of jail free" card.
If we are to look at both sides of this case, then some sign of remorse on Marvin Maple's part would not go amiss. He could and should do all that he can to bring some closure to this affair. Those who would seek to portray him as a martyr are not doing him any favors!
The two younger Baskin children are surely entitled to feel upset at having been deprived of the opportunity to know their older siblings. Do they not deserve this chance?
The courts investigated the Maples' claims of abuse - and found them to be without merit. The fact remains that although Marvin Maple is on probation rather than in jail - he has not been cleared of all wrongdoing.
It is still abduction - and Marvin Maple owes his daughter and son-in-law an explanation for his and his late wife's robbing the Baskins of their children.
It is clear from posts on this and other forums that there are many who clearly feel that Marvin Maple has been handed a "get out of jail free" card.
If we are to look at both sides of this case, then some sign of remorse on Marvin Maple's part would not go amiss. He could and should do all that he can to bring some closure to this affair. Those who would seek to portray him as a martyr are not doing him any favors!
The two younger Baskin children are surely entitled to feel upset at having been deprived of the opportunity to know their older siblings. Do they not deserve this chance?
By: Sameera on 5/24/09
The man got off the kidnapping charges on technicalities, mistakes on the paperwork. He wasn't acquitted by a jury who accepted a justifiable defence that he abducted the children because they were being abused, or he thought they were - which is what I am sure the Maple supporters would really have loved to see.
The man got off the kidnapping charges on technicalities, mistakes on the paperwork. He wasn't acquitted by a jury who accepted a justifiable defence that he abducted the children because they were being abused, or he thought they were - which is what I am sure the Maple supporters would really have loved to see.
By: Undecided on 5/24/09
Nellie, you're now talking about the emotional facets of the case which is completely separated from the legal aspects. No one here can influence what happens on that realm Even if we knew them, all we could do would be to give advice but could not force anyone to act. It's up to each one of the individuals involved -- not us.
Nellie, you're now talking about the emotional facets of the case which is completely separated from the legal aspects. No one here can influence what happens on that realm Even if we knew them, all we could do would be to give advice but could not force anyone to act. It's up to each one of the individuals involved -- not us.
By: Nellie on 5/25/09
Undecided, as Sameera points out, the man got off on technicalities. He was not acquitted by a jury. This will have significance for many who see the legal and emotional sides of this case as being inextricably fused.
Leaving that aspect aside, I believe that most people of goodwill hope that somehow this fractured family can do what is best for ALL the innocent children who were caught up in this tragedy. How good it would be if impartial and honest help, if sought, could be made available to bring this about.
Of course it is up to the individuals involved to resolve this matter. But sometimes it is difficult to know how or where to begin the process of reconciliation, especially after so many years and so much pain. Knowing that non-judgmental help is there if needed could be the beginning of the way forward.
Undecided, as Sameera points out, the man got off on technicalities. He was not acquitted by a jury. This will have significance for many who see the legal and emotional sides of this case as being inextricably fused.
Leaving that aspect aside, I believe that most people of goodwill hope that somehow this fractured family can do what is best for ALL the innocent children who were caught up in this tragedy. How good it would be if impartial and honest help, if sought, could be made available to bring this about.
Of course it is up to the individuals involved to resolve this matter. But sometimes it is difficult to know how or where to begin the process of reconciliation, especially after so many years and so much pain. Knowing that non-judgmental help is there if needed could be the beginning of the way forward.
By: Justus on 5/25/09
He didn't "get off on technicalities". The charge was dropped because of the law. If it were you're rights, it would seem like a technicality to you.
He didn't "get off on technicalities". The charge was dropped because of the law. If it were you're rights, it would seem like a technicality to you.
By: Rascal on 5/25/09
Nellie said: "Leaving that aspect aside, I believe that most people of goodwill hope that somehow this fractured family can do what is best for ALL the innocent children who were caught up in this tragedy. How good it would be if impartial and honest help, if sought, could be made available to bring this about.
Of course it is up to the individuals involved to resolve this matter. But sometimes it is difficult to know how or where to begin the process of reconciliation, especially after so many years and so much pain. Knowing that non-judgmental help is there if needed could be the beginning of the way forward. "
I agree with you Nellie.
The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children has offered help to Christi & Bobby. This organization has a lot of experience in situations such as these with trained professionals for counseling, mediation and possible reunion. Christi & Bobby have only to reach out and contact them.
I hope that they do.
Nellie said: "Leaving that aspect aside, I believe that most people of goodwill hope that somehow this fractured family can do what is best for ALL the innocent children who were caught up in this tragedy. How good it would be if impartial and honest help, if sought, could be made available to bring this about.
Of course it is up to the individuals involved to resolve this matter. But sometimes it is difficult to know how or where to begin the process of reconciliation, especially after so many years and so much pain. Knowing that non-judgmental help is there if needed could be the beginning of the way forward. "
I agree with you Nellie.
The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children has offered help to Christi & Bobby. This organization has a lot of experience in situations such as these with trained professionals for counseling, mediation and possible reunion. Christi & Bobby have only to reach out and contact them.
I hope that they do.
By: Undecided on 5/25/09
Nellie, Rascal is absolutely right in saying that experts could help AFTER the individuals involved chose to reach out to them. However, people sitting here typing cannot help, no matter how much you try to dictate what would feel like closure to you or what you feel is "owed" (such as Maple showing remorse, etc.). The families need to heal -- in their own way, and not to your personal specifications.
Nellie, Rascal is absolutely right in saying that experts could help AFTER the individuals involved chose to reach out to them. However, people sitting here typing cannot help, no matter how much you try to dictate what would feel like closure to you or what you feel is "owed" (such as Maple showing remorse, etc.). The families need to heal -- in their own way, and not to your personal specifications.
By: Sameera on 5/25/09
The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children is offering to help Bobby and Christi? That's great! That is, if Bobby and Christi do take them up on the offer.
Yes, the families need to heal in their own way. Debbie's forgiveness is one great big step forward.
The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children is offering to help Bobby and Christi? That's great! That is, if Bobby and Christi do take them up on the offer.
Yes, the families need to heal in their own way. Debbie's forgiveness is one great big step forward.
By: Nellie on 5/26/09
Undecided, your comments are narrow - and suggest a lack of understanding of how tragedy and upheaval can affect the people involved, whatever "side" they may be on. Playng the blame game is far less important than seeking resolution. Nobody wins in situations like this - but compassion can lessen loss.
This is a tragedy for ALL involved in this case. Your constant reiteration that nothing wrong has been done by the abductors is as much an example of your own "personal specification" as it is of those you accuse other posters of exhibiting. All that any of us who post on forums such as this do is to exchange views - just as you and I are doing now.
Nobody is suggesting that any of the individuals involved here be dragooned into seeking help. It is merely being pointed out that, should they wish for advice, it is avaialble. Nor is it being suggested that such advice come from any of us - and that includes you and me - but from those organisations, such as NCMEC, whose area of expertise this is.
Again, as Sameera says, Debbie's forgiveness is one great big step forward. It is a pity that a few posters seem unable to show similar grace and instead seem to relish the thought of her continued estrangement from her children, her father and her own extended family.
That is a pity.
Undecided, your comments are narrow - and suggest a lack of understanding of how tragedy and upheaval can affect the people involved, whatever "side" they may be on. Playng the blame game is far less important than seeking resolution. Nobody wins in situations like this - but compassion can lessen loss.
This is a tragedy for ALL involved in this case. Your constant reiteration that nothing wrong has been done by the abductors is as much an example of your own "personal specification" as it is of those you accuse other posters of exhibiting. All that any of us who post on forums such as this do is to exchange views - just as you and I are doing now.
Nobody is suggesting that any of the individuals involved here be dragooned into seeking help. It is merely being pointed out that, should they wish for advice, it is avaialble. Nor is it being suggested that such advice come from any of us - and that includes you and me - but from those organisations, such as NCMEC, whose area of expertise this is.
Again, as Sameera says, Debbie's forgiveness is one great big step forward. It is a pity that a few posters seem unable to show similar grace and instead seem to relish the thought of her continued estrangement from her children, her father and her own extended family.
That is a pity.
By: Undecided on 5/26/09
Hmmmm, I said that the families need to heal. And, they need to do it in freedom, without any requirement to live up to what you personally specify in your comments like "This old man should be .... At the very least, he should be.... He owes ..." Based on that, you say that I showed that I don't understand tragedy??? Weird conclusion.
"Blame game." Who have I blamed? Please show me where any of my words demonstrate that.
And, wherever did I say "nothing wrong has been done by the abductors"?
Looks like you're putting words in my mouth at every turn!
Here's a list of the words I HAVE said:
We'll never know the whole story. I trust that the courts and God will both judge in their own arenas. We have no right to interfere.
attagirl, I know without a shadow of a doubt that God is just and will judge according to His own laws. He is the only one who knows every part of the story. And, He does not need our help in doing that judgment.
As for the court, the newspaper article says that the reason the kidnapping warrants were dismissed is that people made mistakes on the paperwork. Now, the judge has accepted Maple's guilty plea. The case is over.
The man who tracked down Maple, Rutherford County Sheriff’s Office Lt. Bill Sharp, said he supports the court’s ruling. “The DA did what he had to do,” Sharp said. “We hope there will be some resolution between the kids and the parent that the Baskins have been longing for.” I agree.
Nellie, please look at your own words and apply them to both sides of the case equally:
"The courts investigated the Maples. They found [little] with which to reproach them." He's now on probation, not in jail.
"Let this family heal."
Nellie, you're now talking about the emotional facets of the case which is completely separated from the legal aspects. No one here can influence what happens on that realm Even if we knew them, all we could do would be to give advice but could not force anyone to act. It's up to each one of the individuals involved -- not us.
Nellie, Rascal is absolutely right in saying that experts could help AFTER the individuals involved chose to reach out to them. However, people sitting here typing cannot help, no matter how much you try to dictate what would feel like closure to you or what you feel is "owed" (such as Maple showing remorse, etc.). The families need to heal -- in their own way, and not to your personal specifications.
Hmmmm, I said that the families need to heal. And, they need to do it in freedom, without any requirement to live up to what you personally specify in your comments like "This old man should be .... At the very least, he should be.... He owes ..." Based on that, you say that I showed that I don't understand tragedy??? Weird conclusion.
"Blame game." Who have I blamed? Please show me where any of my words demonstrate that.
And, wherever did I say "nothing wrong has been done by the abductors"?
Looks like you're putting words in my mouth at every turn!
Here's a list of the words I HAVE said:
We'll never know the whole story. I trust that the courts and God will both judge in their own arenas. We have no right to interfere.
attagirl, I know without a shadow of a doubt that God is just and will judge according to His own laws. He is the only one who knows every part of the story. And, He does not need our help in doing that judgment.
As for the court, the newspaper article says that the reason the kidnapping warrants were dismissed is that people made mistakes on the paperwork. Now, the judge has accepted Maple's guilty plea. The case is over.
The man who tracked down Maple, Rutherford County Sheriff’s Office Lt. Bill Sharp, said he supports the court’s ruling. “The DA did what he had to do,” Sharp said. “We hope there will be some resolution between the kids and the parent that the Baskins have been longing for.” I agree.
Nellie, please look at your own words and apply them to both sides of the case equally:
"The courts investigated the Maples. They found [little] with which to reproach them." He's now on probation, not in jail.
"Let this family heal."
Nellie, you're now talking about the emotional facets of the case which is completely separated from the legal aspects. No one here can influence what happens on that realm Even if we knew them, all we could do would be to give advice but could not force anyone to act. It's up to each one of the individuals involved -- not us.
Nellie, Rascal is absolutely right in saying that experts could help AFTER the individuals involved chose to reach out to them. However, people sitting here typing cannot help, no matter how much you try to dictate what would feel like closure to you or what you feel is "owed" (such as Maple showing remorse, etc.). The families need to heal -- in their own way, and not to your personal specifications.
By: Sameera on 5/27/09
All things considered, I guess it was a pragmatic decision and may go a long way to helping the families heal than a prison sentence would.
Still, it was most annoying that the warrant was drawn up incorrectly, creating technicalities, civil rights violations or whatever you like to call them.
At least the case is solved and closed, at long last.
All things considered, I guess it was a pragmatic decision and may go a long way to helping the families heal than a prison sentence would.
Still, it was most annoying that the warrant was drawn up incorrectly, creating technicalities, civil rights violations or whatever you like to call them.
At least the case is solved and closed, at long last.
By: Nellie on 5/27/09
The lessons that need to be learned from this case are that children, who are utterly helpless and vulnerable when it comes to adult decision making, must be protected from those adults whose own agendas would put them at risk of harm. For that is what happened in this case.
Now, we could all argue until the cows come home about who said this and that, who did what, who lied, who told the truth - and whose fault it was that two small children led a very false lifestyle for so many years. On this topic we shall have to agree to disagree. That is no longer relevant here.
However, the importance of eliminating sloppiness in procedure, such as that demonstrated by the incorrect drawing up of a warrant, is crucial when a child goes missing. This, together the blinkered mindset of some who think that if a child has been abducted by one or other of his parents (or indeed by a grandparent) then that child will not only be OK, he will actually be better off, can play a major part in the failure to locate such children quickly.
As Rascal, Sameera and I have all repeatedly stated, the issue of seeking expert counselling is a decision to be made by those involved. It is indeed their choice. It has not been suggested - by any of us - that this should be forced upon any of them, that their choices are to be dictated by anyone's "personal specifications". It is only you, Undecided, who is misinterpreting others' posts. Perhaps you could change the record.
And the possibility of any of those directly involved actually having the time and inclination to study these forums, let alone allowing their choices to be dictated by anything that any one of us might say, is pretty remote. How conceited we would be if we were to think that our random and varied viewpoints might influence them.
The Baskin and Maple families are those who have to deal with the aftermath of the tragedy which has affected their lives. We merely have the luxury of pontificating on forums such as this - and we shouldn't lose sight of this.
But we can, by expressing our views, perhaps draw attention to the wider issues of the obscenity of child abduction. As many will know, last Monday was International Missing Children's Day, a timely reminder that sadly, child abduction is a worldwide problem - and will remain so if people continue to turn a blind eye to wrongdoing.
The lessons that need to be learned from this case are that children, who are utterly helpless and vulnerable when it comes to adult decision making, must be protected from those adults whose own agendas would put them at risk of harm. For that is what happened in this case.
Now, we could all argue until the cows come home about who said this and that, who did what, who lied, who told the truth - and whose fault it was that two small children led a very false lifestyle for so many years. On this topic we shall have to agree to disagree. That is no longer relevant here.
However, the importance of eliminating sloppiness in procedure, such as that demonstrated by the incorrect drawing up of a warrant, is crucial when a child goes missing. This, together the blinkered mindset of some who think that if a child has been abducted by one or other of his parents (or indeed by a grandparent) then that child will not only be OK, he will actually be better off, can play a major part in the failure to locate such children quickly.
As Rascal, Sameera and I have all repeatedly stated, the issue of seeking expert counselling is a decision to be made by those involved. It is indeed their choice. It has not been suggested - by any of us - that this should be forced upon any of them, that their choices are to be dictated by anyone's "personal specifications". It is only you, Undecided, who is misinterpreting others' posts. Perhaps you could change the record.
And the possibility of any of those directly involved actually having the time and inclination to study these forums, let alone allowing their choices to be dictated by anything that any one of us might say, is pretty remote. How conceited we would be if we were to think that our random and varied viewpoints might influence them.
The Baskin and Maple families are those who have to deal with the aftermath of the tragedy which has affected their lives. We merely have the luxury of pontificating on forums such as this - and we shouldn't lose sight of this.
But we can, by expressing our views, perhaps draw attention to the wider issues of the obscenity of child abduction. As many will know, last Monday was International Missing Children's Day, a timely reminder that sadly, child abduction is a worldwide problem - and will remain so if people continue to turn a blind eye to wrongdoing.
By: Undecided on 5/27/09
LOL -- Nellie, your answer was long, but never addressed the things that you baselessly accused me of supposedly saying.
LOL -- Nellie, your answer was long, but never addressed the things that you baselessly accused me of supposedly saying.
By: stuart on 5/27/09
Whenever there is a case with so many unanswered questions for so long, you can expect to be surprised at the progression and the outcome.
Who supplied their I.D. papers? How did they get away with false identities for so long? Why aren't their enablers in these crimes being prosecuted?
If a court case would have insured all these questions to be addressed, then the "powers that be" must drop the case. Too many criminals would suffer.
It reminds me of the recent youtube video two weeks ago from Guatamala. The Guatamalan lawyer predicted his own death only two days before he was gunned down while riding his bike. He knew too much about their President and First Lady.
It probably wasn't even the Pres. and 1st Lady who set it up, but whoever "owned" them and didn't want to have to get new "puppets". Reminds me of Vince Foster. Same as here, same as everywhere. Although the Southern U.S has a worse record of fishy courts. You can start to predict outcomes of these perplexing cases.
Whenever there is a case with so many unanswered questions for so long, you can expect to be surprised at the progression and the outcome.
Who supplied their I.D. papers? How did they get away with false identities for so long? Why aren't their enablers in these crimes being prosecuted?
If a court case would have insured all these questions to be addressed, then the "powers that be" must drop the case. Too many criminals would suffer.
It reminds me of the recent youtube video two weeks ago from Guatamala. The Guatamalan lawyer predicted his own death only two days before he was gunned down while riding his bike. He knew too much about their President and First Lady.
It probably wasn't even the Pres. and 1st Lady who set it up, but whoever "owned" them and didn't want to have to get new "puppets". Reminds me of Vince Foster. Same as here, same as everywhere. Although the Southern U.S has a worse record of fishy courts. You can start to predict outcomes of these perplexing cases.
By: aliceinwonderland on 5/27/09
As a naturalized American, I am disappointed that justice has not been served in this case. A kidnapper goes free and can continue enjoying his life. His daughter who was deprived of her dear children will never be able to forget the pain. And the children are not rushing to make it up with their real family and younger brothers. They are just plain cruel if they cannot understand how it hurts their parents and brothers. The evil gets rewarded and those who have suffered will continue to suffer. What a resolution! I keep getting amazed at how laws work in this country. One can get severely punished for selling or simply smoking pot, but get a slap on the wrist for kidnapping and assuming a false identity. Unbelievable!
Also, I find it strange that some people on this forum insist that no one, God forbid, even suggest to the children that they should (I do mean should) contact their family. For heavens sake, they are not kids anymore, nor they are delicate flowers one can't touch without damaging. They are grown ups and are capable of making decisions. They should be strong enough to survive knowing that many people in this country (even a mother from Iowa) have an opinion on this case.
As a naturalized American, I am disappointed that justice has not been served in this case. A kidnapper goes free and can continue enjoying his life. His daughter who was deprived of her dear children will never be able to forget the pain. And the children are not rushing to make it up with their real family and younger brothers. They are just plain cruel if they cannot understand how it hurts their parents and brothers. The evil gets rewarded and those who have suffered will continue to suffer. What a resolution! I keep getting amazed at how laws work in this country. One can get severely punished for selling or simply smoking pot, but get a slap on the wrist for kidnapping and assuming a false identity. Unbelievable!
Also, I find it strange that some people on this forum insist that no one, God forbid, even suggest to the children that they should (I do mean should) contact their family. For heavens sake, they are not kids anymore, nor they are delicate flowers one can't touch without damaging. They are grown ups and are capable of making decisions. They should be strong enough to survive knowing that many people in this country (even a mother from Iowa) have an opinion on this case.
By: Sameera on 5/27/09
No, we can't tell this family what to do, how they should go about getting on with their lives, or how they should go about healing and counselling. We can, however, send them thoughts and prayers of healing.
No, we can't tell this family what to do, how they should go about getting on with their lives, or how they should go about healing and counselling. We can, however, send them thoughts and prayers of healing.
By: Sameera on 5/28/09
The article says that Marvin Maple's record will be wiped if he meets the conditions of his four-year probation. I wonder what those conditions are?
The article says that Marvin Maple's record will be wiped if he meets the conditions of his four-year probation. I wonder what those conditions are?
By: Free04 on 5/28/09
This is outrageous. This sends a message to all relatives, in particular grandparents that if you disagree with who is raising your grandchildren, then you can just kidnap them, change their names, hide them from their parents for 20 years, be found, plead to a lesser charge and you can still maintain your relationship with your grandchildren. It is NEVER okay for a grandparent to do this...this is criminal. They have done irreparable damage to their grandchildren. This story is eerily similar to my story: when our kids were 1 week old and 20 months old, my parents came to visit. My husband was attending Bible college and we had difficulties as any married student does. I made the mistake of sharing those difficulties with my parents. Their response: "we're taking the kids, you can come if you want". So for the next 16 years, I was basically held a hostage in my parents' home, until our daughter called the police the last time my mother beat me. I was then able to get away from my parents. Our kids are 21 and 23 now. There is irreparable damage to our relationship now and my parents continue to poison our kids against us. By the way, while I was held hostage by my parents, they told me if I wanted to keep my kids, I had to divorce my husband, which I did. Almost 5 years ago, we were remarried to each other and have never been more happy. But there is a never ending grief over the loss of our kids.
This is outrageous. This sends a message to all relatives, in particular grandparents that if you disagree with who is raising your grandchildren, then you can just kidnap them, change their names, hide them from their parents for 20 years, be found, plead to a lesser charge and you can still maintain your relationship with your grandchildren. It is NEVER okay for a grandparent to do this...this is criminal. They have done irreparable damage to their grandchildren. This story is eerily similar to my story: when our kids were 1 week old and 20 months old, my parents came to visit. My husband was attending Bible college and we had difficulties as any married student does. I made the mistake of sharing those difficulties with my parents. Their response: "we're taking the kids, you can come if you want". So for the next 16 years, I was basically held a hostage in my parents' home, until our daughter called the police the last time my mother beat me. I was then able to get away from my parents. Our kids are 21 and 23 now. There is irreparable damage to our relationship now and my parents continue to poison our kids against us. By the way, while I was held hostage by my parents, they told me if I wanted to keep my kids, I had to divorce my husband, which I did. Almost 5 years ago, we were remarried to each other and have never been more happy. But there is a never ending grief over the loss of our kids.
By: Spit-Fire on 5/28/09
There is such a thing as free will... maybe you should have used yours. You're only abused and mistreated if you allow yourself to be.
There is such a thing as free will... maybe you should have used yours. You're only abused and mistreated if you allow yourself to be.
By: Sameera on 5/28/09
Dear Free04,
I'm so sorry to hear what happened to you. So many cases where grandparents have used their grandchildren as weapons to punish the parents.
One case the Baskin case has frequently been compared to is the Pat Farmer case, which also featured on "Unsolved Mysteries" and was the basis for "A Kidnapping in the Family". Pat Farmer tried to lay false allegations of satanic ritual abuse against her daughter, LaDonna, by indoctrinating and coaching LaDonna's son, Jared. The judge placed Jared in custody of the court while the charges were investigated. These fell apart when Jared admitted he had been coached by his grandmother and custody was restored to LaDonna. Then Pat Farmer abducted Jared with help from LaDonna's sister, who believed the charges, but they were apprehended. Jared was safely and happily restored to his mother. Pat Farmer was released from prison in May 1991.
Apparently Pat Farmer's motive was that she disapproved of LaDonna's divorce, and they always did have a "stormy relationship" anyway.
Dear Free04,
I'm so sorry to hear what happened to you. So many cases where grandparents have used their grandchildren as weapons to punish the parents.
One case the Baskin case has frequently been compared to is the Pat Farmer case, which also featured on "Unsolved Mysteries" and was the basis for "A Kidnapping in the Family". Pat Farmer tried to lay false allegations of satanic ritual abuse against her daughter, LaDonna, by indoctrinating and coaching LaDonna's son, Jared. The judge placed Jared in custody of the court while the charges were investigated. These fell apart when Jared admitted he had been coached by his grandmother and custody was restored to LaDonna. Then Pat Farmer abducted Jared with help from LaDonna's sister, who believed the charges, but they were apprehended. Jared was safely and happily restored to his mother. Pat Farmer was released from prison in May 1991.
Apparently Pat Farmer's motive was that she disapproved of LaDonna's divorce, and they always did have a "stormy relationship" anyway.
By: Free04 on 5/29/09
Spit-Fire:
Only those who are truly abusers talk as you do, IMHO.
Sameera: Thank you for your kind words. So sad to hear of the Pat Farmer case. It seems to be very easy to poison others against those who love them.
Hate is easy, but love takes courage!
Spit-Fire:
Only those who are truly abusers talk as you do, IMHO.
Sameera: Thank you for your kind words. So sad to hear of the Pat Farmer case. It seems to be very easy to poison others against those who love them.
Hate is easy, but love takes courage!
By: life_is_short on 5/29/09
Spit-Fire, I have read a lot of stupid things on these forums. But your statement is clearly the most asinine thing I have read in my entire life. It proves not only do you not know what the hell you are talking about, but you are either a victim or a predator yourself. A healthy normal human being would never utter such thoughtless words. Either way, I hope you are getting the help you so desperately are crying out for.
Spit-Fire, I have read a lot of stupid things on these forums. But your statement is clearly the most asinine thing I have read in my entire life. It proves not only do you not know what the hell you are talking about, but you are either a victim or a predator yourself. A healthy normal human being would never utter such thoughtless words. Either way, I hope you are getting the help you so desperately are crying out for.
By: Sameera on 5/29/09
Life is Short:
I have encountered Spit-Fire before; the correspondent is one of Debbie's estranged relatives.
Life is Short:
I have encountered Spit-Fire before; the correspondent is one of Debbie's estranged relatives.
By: InTheMaplesDefense on 5/30/09
As per usual, most of the posters here are clueless. The "kids" have valid reasons for not wanting to see their biological parents. You don't know them, you haven't spoken to them, you know NOTHING but what the media has fed you, and you have once again swallowed it hook, line and sinker. As for the nasty posts directed at Spit Fire, once again you people are wrong. There are organizations for abused people EVERYWHERE! People do have options, they do not have to allow their lives to be dictated by others...unless there is more to the story than the so-called "abused" is letting on? Hmmmm...makes you wonder. Mark and Debbie are abusers, their children want nothing to do with them, end of story. Marvin is free because he did what was needed. And yes, God will mete out his justice when the time comes, and believe me, Sandra is NOT roasting in hell, as much as some of you would like her to be!!
As per usual, most of the posters here are clueless. The "kids" have valid reasons for not wanting to see their biological parents. You don't know them, you haven't spoken to them, you know NOTHING but what the media has fed you, and you have once again swallowed it hook, line and sinker. As for the nasty posts directed at Spit Fire, once again you people are wrong. There are organizations for abused people EVERYWHERE! People do have options, they do not have to allow their lives to be dictated by others...unless there is more to the story than the so-called "abused" is letting on? Hmmmm...makes you wonder. Mark and Debbie are abusers, their children want nothing to do with them, end of story. Marvin is free because he did what was needed. And yes, God will mete out his justice when the time comes, and believe me, Sandra is NOT roasting in hell, as much as some of you would like her to be!!
By: Spit-Fire on 5/30/09
Free04: You were "basically" held hostage in your parents home... for 16 years?? Have you ever heard of a telephone?? Why wasn't your husband supporting you and your kids in your own home? Why did you live with your parents, who you CLAIM abused you physically and mentally? Why the HELL didn't you go to a shelter and get the help you claim you needed? I'll tell you why: you didn't use your free will, which God blessed us all with! You ALLOWED your parents to mistreat you. If what you said is even the truth! How are we supposed to know if what you say is true or not? I mean, come on, we're just strangers, sitting here reading what you post! For all we know, you could be a single 20 year old man who likes to make up stories for the fun of it. Are you getting my point yet??? Do you all believe everything you read?? It appears that you do. Good luck with that.
Attention, Life Is Short: You claim I don't know what I'm talking about??? Do you know me personally? Nope, you sure don't. But here's a litte FYI for you... I am neither a victim nor a predator, but that's a pretty hilarious statement. Thanks for the laugh!! Why am I not a victim?? Because when I was married to an abusive alcoholic, I used MY FREE WILL to take my child and get the hell out of the situation!!!!!!!!!!!! A healthy, normal human being would try to encourage an abused person to use their FREE WILL to leave the situation! Apparently Free04 must not have had it that bad or she would have left and gone to a shelter or a relatives house... that is, if she's even telling the truth! But some people like to be the victim... it get's them the sympathy and attention that they so desperately and obviously crave. I have much more self respect, intelligence, bravery, and love for myself and my child than to sit back and ALLOW either of us to be abused!! So, for God's sake, get a clue, would you!? We are only the victim if we allow ourselves to be the victim! People treat us the way we LET them treat us! It's a proven fact!!!
Sameera: I remember you... you're a friend of the Baskins. In other words, you're one of those sick people who thinks it's okay to abuse kids. I bet you kick puppies too. Funny... the Maples never abused the kids. And if the Baskins hadn't done so, the Maples wouldn't have had to take the kids to safety. Well I have three words for you: Bring It On! You don't know me... never have, never will. You don't know what I know... never have, never will. You can rattle on all you want about Marvin and Sandra... but those who matter know the truth. You are obviously NOT one of those people, because quite frankly, you wouldn't know the truth if it jumped in your lap and bit you. But maybe someday..... and if that day comes I would love to see the expression on your face! But in reality, you'd probably just pull the ostrich routine and bury your head in the sand to avoid looking like a complete and utter fool for believing all the lies for so many years! That's what happens when you believe everything you read. You have fun with that, m'kay!?
It's such a shame there are so many people in this world who have nothing better to do with their lives than to sit and gossip, finger point, and toss around accusations about things they literally know nothing about. Hey people... wake up, put down your Inquirer magazine and get a life!!
Free04: You were "basically" held hostage in your parents home... for 16 years?? Have you ever heard of a telephone?? Why wasn't your husband supporting you and your kids in your own home? Why did you live with your parents, who you CLAIM abused you physically and mentally? Why the HELL didn't you go to a shelter and get the help you claim you needed? I'll tell you why: you didn't use your free will, which God blessed us all with! You ALLOWED your parents to mistreat you. If what you said is even the truth! How are we supposed to know if what you say is true or not? I mean, come on, we're just strangers, sitting here reading what you post! For all we know, you could be a single 20 year old man who likes to make up stories for the fun of it. Are you getting my point yet??? Do you all believe everything you read?? It appears that you do. Good luck with that.
Attention, Life Is Short: You claim I don't know what I'm talking about??? Do you know me personally? Nope, you sure don't. But here's a litte FYI for you... I am neither a victim nor a predator, but that's a pretty hilarious statement. Thanks for the laugh!! Why am I not a victim?? Because when I was married to an abusive alcoholic, I used MY FREE WILL to take my child and get the hell out of the situation!!!!!!!!!!!! A healthy, normal human being would try to encourage an abused person to use their FREE WILL to leave the situation! Apparently Free04 must not have had it that bad or she would have left and gone to a shelter or a relatives house... that is, if she's even telling the truth! But some people like to be the victim... it get's them the sympathy and attention that they so desperately and obviously crave. I have much more self respect, intelligence, bravery, and love for myself and my child than to sit back and ALLOW either of us to be abused!! So, for God's sake, get a clue, would you!? We are only the victim if we allow ourselves to be the victim! People treat us the way we LET them treat us! It's a proven fact!!!
Sameera: I remember you... you're a friend of the Baskins. In other words, you're one of those sick people who thinks it's okay to abuse kids. I bet you kick puppies too. Funny... the Maples never abused the kids. And if the Baskins hadn't done so, the Maples wouldn't have had to take the kids to safety. Well I have three words for you: Bring It On! You don't know me... never have, never will. You don't know what I know... never have, never will. You can rattle on all you want about Marvin and Sandra... but those who matter know the truth. You are obviously NOT one of those people, because quite frankly, you wouldn't know the truth if it jumped in your lap and bit you. But maybe someday..... and if that day comes I would love to see the expression on your face! But in reality, you'd probably just pull the ostrich routine and bury your head in the sand to avoid looking like a complete and utter fool for believing all the lies for so many years! That's what happens when you believe everything you read. You have fun with that, m'kay!?
It's such a shame there are so many people in this world who have nothing better to do with their lives than to sit and gossip, finger point, and toss around accusations about things they literally know nothing about. Hey people... wake up, put down your Inquirer magazine and get a life!!
By: Spit-Fire on 5/30/09
Hey InTheMaplesDefense: Thanks for backing me up. I remember you from that other website. You know, the one where they won't allow us to post anything because it's composed completely of biased Baskin supporters who believe everything they read?! The site where our freedom of speech is beat up and deleted because we actually posted some real *gasp* FACTS!!! The site where they support child abuse. Well, I think it's time for me to pay them another visit. I bet I'll be greeted with open arms by all those warm, kindhearted people again. LMAO!!!!
Hey InTheMaplesDefense: Thanks for backing me up. I remember you from that other website. You know, the one where they won't allow us to post anything because it's composed completely of biased Baskin supporters who believe everything they read?! The site where our freedom of speech is beat up and deleted because we actually posted some real *gasp* FACTS!!! The site where they support child abuse. Well, I think it's time for me to pay them another visit. I bet I'll be greeted with open arms by all those warm, kindhearted people again. LMAO!!!!
By: Nellie on 6/2/09
I see that much more has been posted here since I last visited this thread. It does seem a pity that people are still hurling accusations at one another - each insisting that only his or her viewpoint is the right one. This does nothing to bring about any sort of resolution to such a tragic affair.
I was also sent the link to the particular Sitcomsonline forum thread which is debating this case - not a website I'd visited before, although some of those on this thread obviously are familiar with it and also post there. It made interesting reading, although it took some time to read thru all 58 pages! Obviously it raises passionate views on all sides - some of which are reasonably debated, others just unpleasantly abusive.
However, to those who continue to seek confrontation, Sameera's response to such posters couldn't have put it more succinctly! '..."Bring it on"? No thanks, I'm not interested.'
Time to move on.
I see that much more has been posted here since I last visited this thread. It does seem a pity that people are still hurling accusations at one another - each insisting that only his or her viewpoint is the right one. This does nothing to bring about any sort of resolution to such a tragic affair.
I was also sent the link to the particular Sitcomsonline forum thread which is debating this case - not a website I'd visited before, although some of those on this thread obviously are familiar with it and also post there. It made interesting reading, although it took some time to read thru all 58 pages! Obviously it raises passionate views on all sides - some of which are reasonably debated, others just unpleasantly abusive.
However, to those who continue to seek confrontation, Sameera's response to such posters couldn't have put it more succinctly! '..."Bring it on"? No thanks, I'm not interested.'
Time to move on.
By: Spit-Fire on 6/2/09
Sameera:
It's very obvious that you ARE interested. Otherwise you would have let me post my comments without trying to rip apart every word that I've typed. Go try to bully someone else because it doesn't work with me.
Nellie:
Mind your own business. You're just as much of a trouble maker as Sameera, Free04, life is short, and attagirl. Any time someone disagreed with something any of you said, regardless of the fact that we were at least posting the TRUTH, you went all postal. How pleasant.
Free04:
Are you having fun copying my posts from here and putting them on other sites? Trying to gather up more Maple haters? Or just looking for more sympathy?
God forbid anyone has the nerve to speak up to one of the Maple bashers! I said it on the other site, and I'll say it on here... I'm going to exercise my right to Free Speech regardless of who likes it or not. If I'm greeted with rudeness and disrespect, that's what you can expect in return. There sure are a lot of hypocrites in this world. "I'm going to treat you like crap, but you'd better be nice to me, and if you're not we'll delete your posts". Whatever!!!!!!!!!
Sameera:
It's very obvious that you ARE interested. Otherwise you would have let me post my comments without trying to rip apart every word that I've typed. Go try to bully someone else because it doesn't work with me.
Nellie:
Mind your own business. You're just as much of a trouble maker as Sameera, Free04, life is short, and attagirl. Any time someone disagreed with something any of you said, regardless of the fact that we were at least posting the TRUTH, you went all postal. How pleasant.
Free04:
Are you having fun copying my posts from here and putting them on other sites? Trying to gather up more Maple haters? Or just looking for more sympathy?
God forbid anyone has the nerve to speak up to one of the Maple bashers! I said it on the other site, and I'll say it on here... I'm going to exercise my right to Free Speech regardless of who likes it or not. If I'm greeted with rudeness and disrespect, that's what you can expect in return. There sure are a lot of hypocrites in this world. "I'm going to treat you like crap, but you'd better be nice to me, and if you're not we'll delete your posts". Whatever!!!!!!!!!
By: SanJose_Charlie on 6/3/09
Sandra Maple? Did she renounce Jesus Christ?
What could cause her heart to harden so hard?
Sandra Maple? Did she renounce Jesus Christ?
What could cause her heart to harden so hard?
By: SanJose_Charlie on 6/3/09
You commit horrific crimes...
You commit horrific crimes...
By: SanJose_Charlie on 6/3/09
stuff happens!
Rotten actions lead to consequences.
Not to rub salt in a wound but you know the rules. That's the way it is.
Question: Does Marvin believe?
Maple family supporters need to get their priorities straight.
stuff happens!
Rotten actions lead to consequences.
Not to rub salt in a wound but you know the rules. That's the way it is.
Question: Does Marvin believe?
Maple family supporters need to get their priorities straight.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 6/3/09
They come out of a hole like a bunch of yellow jackets, after the Baskin's show extreme mercy and compassion, in regards to Marvin.
Spit-Fire666...devilishly dishonest.
You probably don't believe anyway... NO Biggie.
Wacky Murple women supporters, what are you gonna do? LOL ;)
They come out of a hole like a bunch of yellow jackets, after the Baskin's show extreme mercy and compassion, in regards to Marvin.
Spit-Fire666...devilishly dishonest.
You probably don't believe anyway... NO Biggie.
Wacky Murple women supporters, what are you gonna do? LOL ;)
By: SanJose_Charlie on 6/3/09
So, does Marvin have to live in Tennessee during probation?
So, does Marvin have to live in Tennessee during probation?
By: Nellie on 6/3/09
Forums are here for open discussion - sometimes passionate, sometimes rational - sometimes wacky - and sometimes downright unpleasant. Opinions are aired,views exchanged and often disagreed with. That is democracy in action. The right to free speech is a right to be cherished - and that applies to all viewpoints.
It is foolish, however, to attack other posters with a childish display of tantrums and insist that they are posting lies just because their opinions don't happen to please. As has been pointed out by other posters, the truth is something that none of us knows for certain - whatever side of the debate we take.
Forums are here for open discussion - sometimes passionate, sometimes rational - sometimes wacky - and sometimes downright unpleasant. Opinions are aired,views exchanged and often disagreed with. That is democracy in action. The right to free speech is a right to be cherished - and that applies to all viewpoints.
It is foolish, however, to attack other posters with a childish display of tantrums and insist that they are posting lies just because their opinions don't happen to please. As has been pointed out by other posters, the truth is something that none of us knows for certain - whatever side of the debate we take.
By: Free04 on 6/3/09
"Spitfire":
You seem to have made yourself the "moderator" of this site and others. Why so defensive? Maybe you should be investigated as to your treatment of your children as you seem to have great difficulty controlling your temper towards total strangers online.
"Spitfire":
You seem to have made yourself the "moderator" of this site and others. Why so defensive? Maybe you should be investigated as to your treatment of your children as you seem to have great difficulty controlling your temper towards total strangers online.
By: Spit-Fire on 6/3/09
Nellie:
Speak for yourself when you say "the truth is something none of us knows for certain"... Dipahead and I have made true statements, only to have you and a couple other rude people attempt to drive us away from this site and try to rip apart every post me make. And you people have the NERVE to wonder why I get defensive?! Have you forgotten that we live in the USA, and that there is such a thing as Freedom Of Speech?! I have just as much right to come on here and post things as you do. Just because you and a few others don't happen to like our opinion, you greet us with rudeness and disrespect, from day one. I, for one, have had enough. I am fed up with people's extremely low maturity level. Personally, I love good natured banter. However, I hate arguing, and I especially don't like being verbally attacked every time I post something. Why would I NOT be defensive, when all I've received from anyone on here is complete and utter rudeness?! If peope would actually keep an open mind, Dipahead and I do happen to have many FACTS about this case. That's the reason we joined this thread... only one side of this story was told and it's very upsetting to see all of the horrible things people say when they don't even know both sides of the story. We're here to tell the other side. But people have already made up their minds based completely on what's been written online and in the newspapers. Heck, I read an article about the Maple/Baskin story and they didn't even get the kids' last name correct!!! If they can't get something as simple as a name right, what makes anyone think that the rest of the stuff they're reading is true and/or accurate? But people just eat this stuff up without considering the fact that there are ALWAYS two sides to every story. And the Baskins have told many lies to the media. I am certain of this, it's not just a guess... it's not just hearsay.
Nellie:
Speak for yourself when you say "the truth is something none of us knows for certain"... Dipahead and I have made true statements, only to have you and a couple other rude people attempt to drive us away from this site and try to rip apart every post me make. And you people have the NERVE to wonder why I get defensive?! Have you forgotten that we live in the USA, and that there is such a thing as Freedom Of Speech?! I have just as much right to come on here and post things as you do. Just because you and a few others don't happen to like our opinion, you greet us with rudeness and disrespect, from day one. I, for one, have had enough. I am fed up with people's extremely low maturity level. Personally, I love good natured banter. However, I hate arguing, and I especially don't like being verbally attacked every time I post something. Why would I NOT be defensive, when all I've received from anyone on here is complete and utter rudeness?! If peope would actually keep an open mind, Dipahead and I do happen to have many FACTS about this case. That's the reason we joined this thread... only one side of this story was told and it's very upsetting to see all of the horrible things people say when they don't even know both sides of the story. We're here to tell the other side. But people have already made up their minds based completely on what's been written online and in the newspapers. Heck, I read an article about the Maple/Baskin story and they didn't even get the kids' last name correct!!! If they can't get something as simple as a name right, what makes anyone think that the rest of the stuff they're reading is true and/or accurate? But people just eat this stuff up without considering the fact that there are ALWAYS two sides to every story. And the Baskins have told many lies to the media. I am certain of this, it's not just a guess... it's not just hearsay.
By: Spit-Fire on 6/3/09
SanJose Charlie:
Maybe it's not such a good idea to post things when you're drunk. Your nickname for me was pretty funny though! Maybe I'll change my username to that. Wouldn't that be hilarious?!
However, I do want to address one statement you made: you said the Baskins showed Marvin extreme mercy and compassion. I would love to hear your opinion on how you ever came to that conclusion. Could you explain what you've heard or read that would make you believe that? Thanks.
SanJose Charlie:
Maybe it's not such a good idea to post things when you're drunk. Your nickname for me was pretty funny though! Maybe I'll change my username to that. Wouldn't that be hilarious?!
However, I do want to address one statement you made: you said the Baskins showed Marvin extreme mercy and compassion. I would love to hear your opinion on how you ever came to that conclusion. Could you explain what you've heard or read that would make you believe that? Thanks.
By: Spit-Fire on 6/3/09
Free04:
That's for viewing me as a person in charge. I'll take that as a compliment. I'm a little concerned for you though. Your perception of reality seems a little warped... a little "off" if you will. Maybe all that abuse left you with a case of PTSD (do you know what the acronym stands for?). I strongly suggest you see a mental health care provider asap. Sometimes, when people have been severely abused and held hostage, such as the case with you, they are never quite "normal" after they are freed. They have a lot of bottled up anger and bitterness. Sometimes they don't sleep well. They have visions of revenge. There can be mood swings, and/or depression. They seek acceptance and sympathy. I detect a hint of some of those things in your posts. Please, for the sake of your marriage, your childrens safety, and your own mental health and well-being, seek help immediately.
Free04:
That's for viewing me as a person in charge. I'll take that as a compliment. I'm a little concerned for you though. Your perception of reality seems a little warped... a little "off" if you will. Maybe all that abuse left you with a case of PTSD (do you know what the acronym stands for?). I strongly suggest you see a mental health care provider asap. Sometimes, when people have been severely abused and held hostage, such as the case with you, they are never quite "normal" after they are freed. They have a lot of bottled up anger and bitterness. Sometimes they don't sleep well. They have visions of revenge. There can be mood swings, and/or depression. They seek acceptance and sympathy. I detect a hint of some of those things in your posts. Please, for the sake of your marriage, your childrens safety, and your own mental health and well-being, seek help immediately.
By: Spit-Fire on 6/3/09
Free04:
Oops, type o. THANKS... for viewing me as a person in charge! Have an exceptionally lovely, relaxing evening!
Go Red Wings!!
Free04:
Oops, type o. THANKS... for viewing me as a person in charge! Have an exceptionally lovely, relaxing evening!
Go Red Wings!!
By: stuart on 6/4/09
When the jury declared the innocents of the McMartins after the McMartin molestation case ended in California in the 1980's, there was one nutcase who kept rambling on about the "guilt" of the McMartins. It is slander of course to falsely accuse an innocent person, especially after a jury has cleard them. The McMartins sued and won. But the judge only made the nutcase pay one dollar in damages. Interestingly, after the Salem case in the 1600's, a woman who escaped being stoned to death was also awarded one shilling in damages. One dollar is only a warning, but the nutty fanatic shut his trap forever after.
When the jury declared the innocents of the McMartins after the McMartin molestation case ended in California in the 1980's, there was one nutcase who kept rambling on about the "guilt" of the McMartins. It is slander of course to falsely accuse an innocent person, especially after a jury has cleard them. The McMartins sued and won. But the judge only made the nutcase pay one dollar in damages. Interestingly, after the Salem case in the 1600's, a woman who escaped being stoned to death was also awarded one shilling in damages. One dollar is only a warning, but the nutty fanatic shut his trap forever after.
By: Sameera on 6/4/09
To Stuart: Yes, nutcases, idiots, hypocrites and bigots who go on believing a person is guilty after they're officially cleared are an unfortunate fact of life. It's far easier to label a person a criminal than it is to unlabel them.
To Stuart: Yes, nutcases, idiots, hypocrites and bigots who go on believing a person is guilty after they're officially cleared are an unfortunate fact of life. It's far easier to label a person a criminal than it is to unlabel them.
By: Spit-Fire on 6/4/09
It's only slander if it's untrue. Geez, you guys are getting desperate. And this isn't a thread about the McMartins or the Salem witches.
Stuart, did you attend the trial for the woman accused of being a witch in Salem in the 1600's? No? Didn't think so. That must mean you read about it.
I couldn't agree more with Sameera about the many nutcases, idiots, hypocrites and bigots.... it IS an unfortunate fact of life that some of us have to deal with every time we post something online.
It's only slander if it's untrue. Geez, you guys are getting desperate. And this isn't a thread about the McMartins or the Salem witches.
Stuart, did you attend the trial for the woman accused of being a witch in Salem in the 1600's? No? Didn't think so. That must mean you read about it.
I couldn't agree more with Sameera about the many nutcases, idiots, hypocrites and bigots.... it IS an unfortunate fact of life that some of us have to deal with every time we post something online.
By: stuart on 6/4/09
Sameera, I don't even believe for sure that some of the people on this board who say the Baskins are guilty really believe that they are. There is something called an "internet troll"
These people (internet trolls) argue for the sake of arguing. They don't care which side of an issue they defend, as long as they can employ their convoluted thinking to mess with peoples minds. Here is a website and a quote that explains this phenominum:
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/troll.htm/printable
"Trolls will brag about their exploits on Troll community boards, linking to message board discussions that dissolved into flame wars. Sometimes trolls will cause such a fuss that the entire community shuts down as a result. Some trolls compete with one another to see how long it takes before an administrator bans the troll from a specific community. The winner might be the troll who remained part of a community the longest or it might be the person who went from registration to banned in the least amount of time."
Sameera, I don't even believe for sure that some of the people on this board who say the Baskins are guilty really believe that they are. There is something called an "internet troll"
These people (internet trolls) argue for the sake of arguing. They don't care which side of an issue they defend, as long as they can employ their convoluted thinking to mess with peoples minds. Here is a website and a quote that explains this phenominum:
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/troll.htm/printable
"Trolls will brag about their exploits on Troll community boards, linking to message board discussions that dissolved into flame wars. Sometimes trolls will cause such a fuss that the entire community shuts down as a result. Some trolls compete with one another to see how long it takes before an administrator bans the troll from a specific community. The winner might be the troll who remained part of a community the longest or it might be the person who went from registration to banned in the least amount of time."
By: Rascal on 6/4/09
SOME are possibly "trolls". Others are actual relatives of the Maple family.
SOME are possibly "trolls". Others are actual relatives of the Maple family.
By: Spit-Fire on 6/4/09
Stuart:
LMFAO at you!! I love your warped sense of humor, bad spelling and all!!
Stuart:
LMFAO at you!! I love your warped sense of humor, bad spelling and all!!
By: stuart on 6/4/09
Rascal, if some of the apparent Internet Trolls are actually Maple family members, then that tells me something about the whole situation. I believe that Internet trolls are just another breed of bullies, as are Munchausen SyndromeBP women, and corrupt prosecuters. I believe that Marvin was a bully as well as Sandra.
Regardless, I think it is good that the site administrator allows discussion of all opinions, and I have no problem reading all the Maples accusations. But I do believe that WHEN SOMEONE POSTS LIBELOUS STATEMENTS, THEY SHOULD CITE REFERENCES, or their posts should be deleted. The Bible says that if you are telling the truth, you must be willing to "Shout it from the rooftops". The Maples supporters stories are just rumors from people who (if they really exist) "wish to remain anominous". If there was any truth to these rumors, and if the possesors of this "knowlege" had any honor, they should "shout the truth from the rooftops", especially twenty years ago when their "truth" might have helped Marvins custody battle.
Rascal, if some of the apparent Internet Trolls are actually Maple family members, then that tells me something about the whole situation. I believe that Internet trolls are just another breed of bullies, as are Munchausen SyndromeBP women, and corrupt prosecuters. I believe that Marvin was a bully as well as Sandra.
Regardless, I think it is good that the site administrator allows discussion of all opinions, and I have no problem reading all the Maples accusations. But I do believe that WHEN SOMEONE POSTS LIBELOUS STATEMENTS, THEY SHOULD CITE REFERENCES, or their posts should be deleted. The Bible says that if you are telling the truth, you must be willing to "Shout it from the rooftops". The Maples supporters stories are just rumors from people who (if they really exist) "wish to remain anominous". If there was any truth to these rumors, and if the possesors of this "knowlege" had any honor, they should "shout the truth from the rooftops", especially twenty years ago when their "truth" might have helped Marvins custody battle.
By: Sameera on 6/4/09
The only Maple I want to hear from right now is Marvin himself. What's his side of things, exactly? He didn't get much chance to explain that in court, and to the best of my knowledge he hasn't said anything public. The only substantial thing I have read was his indignation of how he was being portrayed in the press - which led to his arrest.
The only Maple I want to hear from right now is Marvin himself. What's his side of things, exactly? He didn't get much chance to explain that in court, and to the best of my knowledge he hasn't said anything public. The only substantial thing I have read was his indignation of how he was being portrayed in the press - which led to his arrest.
By: Sameera on 6/7/09
To Stuart,
Another factor which Debbie believes led to the kidnapping was her mother's desire to have a son.
To Stuart,
Another factor which Debbie believes led to the kidnapping was her mother's desire to have a son.
By: jnc1977 on 9/3/09
I've been following this post for a long time and I HAVE to epak up. I wish Spir-fire would quit contradicting themself. They claim they have the right to free speech yet at every turn seem to indicate that others shouldn't post or speak becuase they don't know the truth. Yet spit-fire claims to know the truth, yet indicates that no should should believe everything they read or hear. Spitfire also claims that from day one people were rude and obnoxious to Spit-fire's posts, yet the very first post I see from spitfire is attacking and vile.
I commend you on your opinions Spit-fire. I don't totally agree with them. Yet you state that all of these people who have nothing better to do than read their "National Enquirers" should put them down and put this story to rest.
I sure don't see you letting people put all to rest and let sleeping dogs lie. You seem to be on here as much as anyone and contributing to a hostile and volatile situation. I think you had a lot of good points to make but you made personal attacks in such a heinous and probing way. For instance, you call out others for their stupipdity in making typos, yet when you do, it's simply an "ooops". Unfortunately it seems you think you are better than others and are the only one privy to correct information and truth. And those are the people that are simply incapable of having a discussion or legitimate argument. Argumentative writing is not about slamming your opponent or putting them down. It's about a fluid and positive discourse. I wish that had been your method from the beginning.
I've been following this post for a long time and I HAVE to epak up. I wish Spir-fire would quit contradicting themself. They claim they have the right to free speech yet at every turn seem to indicate that others shouldn't post or speak becuase they don't know the truth. Yet spit-fire claims to know the truth, yet indicates that no should should believe everything they read or hear. Spitfire also claims that from day one people were rude and obnoxious to Spit-fire's posts, yet the very first post I see from spitfire is attacking and vile.
I commend you on your opinions Spit-fire. I don't totally agree with them. Yet you state that all of these people who have nothing better to do than read their "National Enquirers" should put them down and put this story to rest.
I sure don't see you letting people put all to rest and let sleeping dogs lie. You seem to be on here as much as anyone and contributing to a hostile and volatile situation. I think you had a lot of good points to make but you made personal attacks in such a heinous and probing way. For instance, you call out others for their stupipdity in making typos, yet when you do, it's simply an "ooops". Unfortunately it seems you think you are better than others and are the only one privy to correct information and truth. And those are the people that are simply incapable of having a discussion or legitimate argument. Argumentative writing is not about slamming your opponent or putting them down. It's about a fluid and positive discourse. I wish that had been your method from the beginning.
By: thx1138 on 9/15/09
I guess if I ever feel like kidnapping some children I know to do it in Murfreesboro.
I guess if I ever feel like kidnapping some children I know to do it in Murfreesboro.
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