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Yahoo!Member Opinions:
By: greengirl on 6/1/08
My opinion is there has been something fishy going on with this whole thing. When you think about it, we have 2 real estate agents---Batey and Sandlin----opposing a development that isn't residential. Why? They want houses there so they can get more real estate commissions and line their own bank accounts. Doesn't take much to figure that out. It's always about the money. Always.
My opinion is there has been something fishy going on with this whole thing. When you think about it, we have 2 real estate agents---Batey and Sandlin----opposing a development that isn't residential. Why? They want houses there so they can get more real estate commissions and line their own bank accounts. Doesn't take much to figure that out. It's always about the money. Always.
By: Alaskadave on 6/1/08
Greengirl, You are absolutely correct. Instead of a tax and revenue generating destination park, we will get (more) low income housing for illegal Mexicans who pay virtually no taxes and crowd our already overcrowded roads. Stand-by for the realization that we are going to have to pay more taxes in the county as they were already writing budgets and counting on this revenue.
Greengirl, You are absolutely correct. Instead of a tax and revenue generating destination park, we will get (more) low income housing for illegal Mexicans who pay virtually no taxes and crowd our already overcrowded roads. Stand-by for the realization that we are going to have to pay more taxes in the county as they were already writing budgets and counting on this revenue.
By: RafeHyatt on 6/1/08
Greengirl,
Yes, it's about the money. Specifically my property values. What's your problem with it being about the money? What else is it supposed to be about?
Greengirl,
Yes, it's about the money. Specifically my property values. What's your problem with it being about the money? What else is it supposed to be about?
By: RafeHyatt on 6/1/08
Ah, the hubris of the defeated! The comments of Ron Williams, a thoroughly disgraced and discredited lame duck Commissioner, are simply rip-roaring hilarious!
Williams, if you have enough time before you're voted out of office --- you think we didn't play fair? you think that just because you don't know the rules that means we didn't abide by them? are you labeling Demosi as incompetent because he didn't see the need to come running to you and Farley with each and every question pertaining to the Bible Park? Demosi's a pro. He knows the rules. So to answer your questions:
"• Why were the petitions not presented to the county commission?"
Because it's not in the rules.
• Why didn’t commissioners get a chance to examine the petitions?"
Because it's not in the rules.
"• Why did commissioners not know developers objected to the petition?"
As demonstrated by you and 11 of your colleagues, most likely because you chose not to inform yourselves.
Ah, the hubris of the defeated! The comments of Ron Williams, a thoroughly disgraced and discredited lame duck Commissioner, are simply rip-roaring hilarious!
Williams, if you have enough time before you're voted out of office --- you think we didn't play fair? you think that just because you don't know the rules that means we didn't abide by them? are you labeling Demosi as incompetent because he didn't see the need to come running to you and Farley with each and every question pertaining to the Bible Park? Demosi's a pro. He knows the rules. So to answer your questions:
"• Why were the petitions not presented to the county commission?"
Because it's not in the rules.
• Why didn’t commissioners get a chance to examine the petitions?"
Because it's not in the rules.
"• Why did commissioners not know developers objected to the petition?"
As demonstrated by you and 11 of your colleagues, most likely because you chose not to inform yourselves.
By: thesilentmajority on 6/1/08
Mr. Hyatt, are you related to Mr. Greenspan. You always say with certainty that the Park would not have produced revenue. I don't know if it would have or not, but it kills me when someone believes they know more than people who are in the business. We do not know if it would have created tax revenue or not, however, the alternative will absolutely cost taxpayers with the addition of new schools, for which the property tax on the new subdivision won't even pay for the diesal used to bus their kids. Seems to me one option at least had the potential to raise tax dollars. But then again, I am sure you will tell the real estate investors what to do, because you have all the answers from your recliner.
Mr. Hyatt, are you related to Mr. Greenspan. You always say with certainty that the Park would not have produced revenue. I don't know if it would have or not, but it kills me when someone believes they know more than people who are in the business. We do not know if it would have created tax revenue or not, however, the alternative will absolutely cost taxpayers with the addition of new schools, for which the property tax on the new subdivision won't even pay for the diesal used to bus their kids. Seems to me one option at least had the potential to raise tax dollars. But then again, I am sure you will tell the real estate investors what to do, because you have all the answers from your recliner.
By: greengirl on 6/1/08
Absolutely, silent majority. The park would have produced revenue, no doubt about that. $1 in revenue is more than the county will get from houses, which are a net decrease. so give it up, hyatt...your argument doesn't wash. People don't go into business to lose money. And fortunately, you don't have to worry about it and you wouldn't have had to work harder yourself to pay for your property taxes. But now you do. So we can also name the 2010 property tax hike after you. Just sit and opine to the negative. Do you ever make any kind of contribution to the community?
Absolutely, silent majority. The park would have produced revenue, no doubt about that. $1 in revenue is more than the county will get from houses, which are a net decrease. so give it up, hyatt...your argument doesn't wash. People don't go into business to lose money. And fortunately, you don't have to worry about it and you wouldn't have had to work harder yourself to pay for your property taxes. But now you do. So we can also name the 2010 property tax hike after you. Just sit and opine to the negative. Do you ever make any kind of contribution to the community?
By: RafeHyatt on 6/1/08
No, Mr. Majority I am not related to Mr. Greenspan. And I won't tell any real estate investors what to do since I am not in that business. But I am in the business of research, statistics, and probability. The only certainties are:
the Bible Park was promising 1.5 million visitors a year resulting in somewhere around $4 million to the county.
For the hundredth time, theme parks that draw even half that amount offer the traditional theme park attractions like roller coasters and water slides.
For the Bible Park to make the county enough money to justify damaging property values of close to 2000 homeowners and ruining the character of the Blackman community, it would have had to outdraw the Titans, Predators, and Country Music Hall of Fame combined.
A few moments of research and some phone calls to professional theme park associations led us to conclude that it simply was not reasonable to expect that. It's a shame that none of the Commissioners voting in favor of the park could find the time to do their own homework. So we had to do it for them.
If you can't credibly rebut that (from YOUR recliner) then you really need to move on.
No, Mr. Majority I am not related to Mr. Greenspan. And I won't tell any real estate investors what to do since I am not in that business. But I am in the business of research, statistics, and probability. The only certainties are:
the Bible Park was promising 1.5 million visitors a year resulting in somewhere around $4 million to the county.
For the hundredth time, theme parks that draw even half that amount offer the traditional theme park attractions like roller coasters and water slides.
For the Bible Park to make the county enough money to justify damaging property values of close to 2000 homeowners and ruining the character of the Blackman community, it would have had to outdraw the Titans, Predators, and Country Music Hall of Fame combined.
A few moments of research and some phone calls to professional theme park associations led us to conclude that it simply was not reasonable to expect that. It's a shame that none of the Commissioners voting in favor of the park could find the time to do their own homework. So we had to do it for them.
If you can't credibly rebut that (from YOUR recliner) then you really need to move on.
By: RafeHyatt on 6/1/08
greengirl --- I don't have to give anything up. My side prevailed, at least for now, and the Bible Park isn't coming to Blackman. Sorry.
Same response to you as to Mr. Majority. We presented our research about the park's chances of success. Address it and prove me wrong.
greengirl --- I don't have to give anything up. My side prevailed, at least for now, and the Bible Park isn't coming to Blackman. Sorry.
Same response to you as to Mr. Majority. We presented our research about the park's chances of success. Address it and prove me wrong.
By: thesilentmajority on 6/1/08
We can't because of your "not so sunshine boy Sandlin" and the suspicious petition. As a statistics expert, then you understand the numbers can be presented in any way that furthers your cause, just ask the questions in a manner to receive your desired answer. Thats why there are numerous individuals who produce statistics for entities, make it work in the favor of the client for the big sale. Mr. Hyatt, surely you don't believe in a community like Rutherford you can fool all the people with propaganda. Also, the Park would still be on the table if the vote was on the ZONING as it was supposed to be, not who liked it and who didn't. There would have been opportunity to shut it down in other phases in the proper way. I agree that the rules state the 20% landowners can do what they did, but that doesn't make it right. Having the right to do something, doesn't make it the right thing to do. There are numerous rules and laws that are unenforced every day, because it would be harassment to the citizens. So your answers of we did it because we can really gives the action its proper legitimacy. And, I am on my couch, not recliner.
We can't because of your "not so sunshine boy Sandlin" and the suspicious petition. As a statistics expert, then you understand the numbers can be presented in any way that furthers your cause, just ask the questions in a manner to receive your desired answer. Thats why there are numerous individuals who produce statistics for entities, make it work in the favor of the client for the big sale. Mr. Hyatt, surely you don't believe in a community like Rutherford you can fool all the people with propaganda. Also, the Park would still be on the table if the vote was on the ZONING as it was supposed to be, not who liked it and who didn't. There would have been opportunity to shut it down in other phases in the proper way. I agree that the rules state the 20% landowners can do what they did, but that doesn't make it right. Having the right to do something, doesn't make it the right thing to do. There are numerous rules and laws that are unenforced every day, because it would be harassment to the citizens. So your answers of we did it because we can really gives the action its proper legitimacy. And, I am on my couch, not recliner.
By: RafeHyatt on 6/1/08
Well Mr. Majority, all I can say is --- thanks for your comments. A group of average residents took on a multi-millionaire developer and his team of lawyers and preserved our community against this strange and speculative development. We certainly weren't trying to fool anyone, and if you think we broke the rules or did anything underhanded --- great. File a complaint, file a petition, or take us to court. But you still haven't addressed the basic argument --- the Park would have been a bust.
And I don't even OWN a recliner. Don't like 'em.
Well Mr. Majority, all I can say is --- thanks for your comments. A group of average residents took on a multi-millionaire developer and his team of lawyers and preserved our community against this strange and speculative development. We certainly weren't trying to fool anyone, and if you think we broke the rules or did anything underhanded --- great. File a complaint, file a petition, or take us to court. But you still haven't addressed the basic argument --- the Park would have been a bust.
And I don't even OWN a recliner. Don't like 'em.
By: CrazyBoutRacing on 6/1/08
RafeHyatt, don't you ever get tired of responding to this bunch of sour grape cry babies? Jeeze, people. Way before the group of Blackman citizens rebuted the figures with their own investigation, all you had to do was think for yourself. Common sense alone indicated this not only some bizzare business plan, it was about the most hokey proposition to come the pike. Low paying seasonal jobs, TIF funding, in the middle of a residential area, no track record, virtually no revenue for at least two years, etc, etc,. I can't beleive the Blackman folks (and other citizens too), had to work so hard to put the brakes on this gooberized project. Get some decent jobs in here now!
RafeHyatt, don't you ever get tired of responding to this bunch of sour grape cry babies? Jeeze, people. Way before the group of Blackman citizens rebuted the figures with their own investigation, all you had to do was think for yourself. Common sense alone indicated this not only some bizzare business plan, it was about the most hokey proposition to come the pike. Low paying seasonal jobs, TIF funding, in the middle of a residential area, no track record, virtually no revenue for at least two years, etc, etc,. I can't beleive the Blackman folks (and other citizens too), had to work so hard to put the brakes on this gooberized project. Get some decent jobs in here now!
By: RafeHyatt on 6/1/08
Yes, Crazy, sometimes it wears a little thin.
JUST when I was looking at the Post see what they were reporting on now that the Bible Park story was in the past tense..... ;-)
Yes, Crazy, sometimes it wears a little thin.
JUST when I was looking at the Post see what they were reporting on now that the Bible Park story was in the past tense..... ;-)
By: diddlede on 6/2/08
Commissioner Williams and Farley just do not understand anything in plain language or writing. I believe there were and still is more things rotten in Denmark than anyone could ever imagine. Notice, for the moment,Phillips is staying out of this debate over the 2/3 petition. I do not believe they are going to let this go anytime soon, but do believe they are just spinning their wheels.
Cope is a very smart attorney and Demosi a very good Planning Director. They know what they are doing.
We have relatives and friends in Lebanon who do not want the Bible Park in Lebanon. Looks like the people over there are going to be in for a rough go also.
Commissioner Williams and Farley just do not understand anything in plain language or writing. I believe there were and still is more things rotten in Denmark than anyone could ever imagine. Notice, for the moment,Phillips is staying out of this debate over the 2/3 petition. I do not believe they are going to let this go anytime soon, but do believe they are just spinning their wheels.
Cope is a very smart attorney and Demosi a very good Planning Director. They know what they are doing.
We have relatives and friends in Lebanon who do not want the Bible Park in Lebanon. Looks like the people over there are going to be in for a rough go also.
By: dmiller31 on 6/2/08
2/3rds is the law, like it or not. I personally like it. If you don't, try to get it changed. Just stop your belly-aching.
2/3rds is the law, like it or not. I personally like it. If you don't, try to get it changed. Just stop your belly-aching.
By: lightchick on 6/2/08
Sounds like some people want to change the rules now that they have lost. I hate playing with people like that!!
Sounds like some people want to change the rules now that they have lost. I hate playing with people like that!!
By: Alaskadave on 6/2/08
I was at the Courthouse the day of the vote and noticed an awful lot (like all of them) of people from the college holding signs and asking people to honk. The Blackman few, enlisted (or paid), college students to hold a sign to make them feel like they were involved in something, then the minority, especially if measured in the entire community, directed a hate filled, fact absent attack against a business proposal. I would challenge RafeHyatt, as a statistical genius, to provide exactly what theme park cooperated and opened up their financial books to him for his review. Do you sir work for Deloitte and Touche? No corporation would disclose confidential information, especially financial to a group of nobody's from the Blackman community. Get real.
I was at the Courthouse the day of the vote and noticed an awful lot (like all of them) of people from the college holding signs and asking people to honk. The Blackman few, enlisted (or paid), college students to hold a sign to make them feel like they were involved in something, then the minority, especially if measured in the entire community, directed a hate filled, fact absent attack against a business proposal. I would challenge RafeHyatt, as a statistical genius, to provide exactly what theme park cooperated and opened up their financial books to him for his review. Do you sir work for Deloitte and Touche? No corporation would disclose confidential information, especially financial to a group of nobody's from the Blackman community. Get real.
By: diddlede on 6/2/08
Alaskadave, while you are beating up on the Blackman people, try beating up on the residents of Murfreesboro proper. More people in the city did not want the park than did. This is one of the reasons Bragg told Bar Tur to move on. You have just evidentally come on board with your views. No one hired anyone to carry signs. Talking about disclosing financial books, Bar Tur tried to keep everything about his company and possible investors secret. No one ever saw a financial statement from SafeHarbor. They probably could not put one together nor could they get a bank anywhere to loan them any money on the project. There was much research done on SafeHarbor and Bar Tur. No one liked what they were seeing. The only development they have been involved in recently is the Hard Rock in Myrtle Beach and it is already in trouble after only being open a little over a month. Do you really believe a Bible Theme Park would have made it here in the small town of Murfreesboro and Rutherford County? The general public did not believe it could make it and it was in a bad location. This is why it is gone hopefully for good.
Alaskadave, while you are beating up on the Blackman people, try beating up on the residents of Murfreesboro proper. More people in the city did not want the park than did. This is one of the reasons Bragg told Bar Tur to move on. You have just evidentally come on board with your views. No one hired anyone to carry signs. Talking about disclosing financial books, Bar Tur tried to keep everything about his company and possible investors secret. No one ever saw a financial statement from SafeHarbor. They probably could not put one together nor could they get a bank anywhere to loan them any money on the project. There was much research done on SafeHarbor and Bar Tur. No one liked what they were seeing. The only development they have been involved in recently is the Hard Rock in Myrtle Beach and it is already in trouble after only being open a little over a month. Do you really believe a Bible Theme Park would have made it here in the small town of Murfreesboro and Rutherford County? The general public did not believe it could make it and it was in a bad location. This is why it is gone hopefully for good.
By: CrazyBoutRacing on 6/2/08
Well, one thing is true, the business proposal was "fact absent". For the obsessed proponents of the ex-Bible park project, check your Sunday's paper for sales on crying towels.
Well, one thing is true, the business proposal was "fact absent". For the obsessed proponents of the ex-Bible park project, check your Sunday's paper for sales on crying towels.
By: RafeHyatt on 6/2/08
No, Alaskadave, and I'm saying this in all candor and honesty --- Deloitte and Touche couldn't afford me. They made me an offer that I COULD refuse.
One doesn't need access to confidential financial information to make apropos comparisons, davey-wavey-poo-baby. All I had to do was contact the Themed Entertainment Association and the International Association of Amusement Parks and Attractions. They provided with me all the statistical (and non-financial) data I needed to draw the correct conclusion: the Bible Park would never draw the attendance needed for the County to realize any revenue streams at all.
So --- YOU get real, there, dave. And tell Deloitte and Touche to get back to me when they're ready to STOP talking 5 figures.
And to phrase it in words you can understand, Alaskadave --- Bible Park in Blackman = stinky poo-poo.
No, Alaskadave, and I'm saying this in all candor and honesty --- Deloitte and Touche couldn't afford me. They made me an offer that I COULD refuse.
One doesn't need access to confidential financial information to make apropos comparisons, davey-wavey-poo-baby. All I had to do was contact the Themed Entertainment Association and the International Association of Amusement Parks and Attractions. They provided with me all the statistical (and non-financial) data I needed to draw the correct conclusion: the Bible Park would never draw the attendance needed for the County to realize any revenue streams at all.
So --- YOU get real, there, dave. And tell Deloitte and Touche to get back to me when they're ready to STOP talking 5 figures.
And to phrase it in words you can understand, Alaskadave --- Bible Park in Blackman = stinky poo-poo.
By: Alaskadave on 6/3/08
Boy RafeHyatt, you are real smart then, an accountant with an attitude. I am sure then that you will agree that Bar-Tur need not have your approval or consent to gather investments and open a business venture anywhere they pleased, be it Rutherford County or anywhere else. It was their risk not yours. BTW I am sure that your information is impeccable and without bias. I researched it for 10 minutes and found that the all powerful and knowing Themed Entertainment Association (TEA) is a 91 member strong organization consisting mainly of architects and builders, a usual great source of information, as for the IAAPA, whom exactly would answer those questions you posed? It is a member only organization and you must be a theme park or entertainment venue operator to become a member. Do you run a funny farm or something somewhere? Get real with your information,do you think that you can draw conclusions on the viability of a multi-million dollar business venture by talking on the phone with people who have zero vested interest? If so what am I waiting for? I should find an organization I can call to see if it makes sense to open a new ice rink in Murfreesboro, or should I just call the Predators fan line and ask them what they think the interest would be? Maybe the Predators Fan Line folks can then call the bank and get me a 100% risk free loan. This is not the way somebody makes business decisions. Your insincere assertions that you are too good for D&T are quite funny. If your research is anything like what you've posted it is no wonder they only offered you 5 figures, and probably a low five figures!
Boy RafeHyatt, you are real smart then, an accountant with an attitude. I am sure then that you will agree that Bar-Tur need not have your approval or consent to gather investments and open a business venture anywhere they pleased, be it Rutherford County or anywhere else. It was their risk not yours. BTW I am sure that your information is impeccable and without bias. I researched it for 10 minutes and found that the all powerful and knowing Themed Entertainment Association (TEA) is a 91 member strong organization consisting mainly of architects and builders, a usual great source of information, as for the IAAPA, whom exactly would answer those questions you posed? It is a member only organization and you must be a theme park or entertainment venue operator to become a member. Do you run a funny farm or something somewhere? Get real with your information,do you think that you can draw conclusions on the viability of a multi-million dollar business venture by talking on the phone with people who have zero vested interest? If so what am I waiting for? I should find an organization I can call to see if it makes sense to open a new ice rink in Murfreesboro, or should I just call the Predators fan line and ask them what they think the interest would be? Maybe the Predators Fan Line folks can then call the bank and get me a 100% risk free loan. This is not the way somebody makes business decisions. Your insincere assertions that you are too good for D&T are quite funny. If your research is anything like what you've posted it is no wonder they only offered you 5 figures, and probably a low five figures!
By: lightchick on 6/3/08
Bar-Tur did need approval to open his business because he was asking for public assistance. If he were using his own money and building on property already zoned for his proposed use, I don't think as many people would have taken issue with this project.
As for college students being paid to hold signs on the square...I was on the square between 4:30 and 5:00 and I only saw senior citizens.
Bar-Tur did need approval to open his business because he was asking for public assistance. If he were using his own money and building on property already zoned for his proposed use, I don't think as many people would have taken issue with this project.
As for college students being paid to hold signs on the square...I was on the square between 4:30 and 5:00 and I only saw senior citizens.
By: Alaskadave on 6/3/08
Were you hanging out in Manchester by mistake?
I stood out by Binks all afternoon and saw nobody but college aged students and kids holding signs.
Were you hanging out in Manchester by mistake?
I stood out by Binks all afternoon and saw nobody but college aged students and kids holding signs.
By: RafeHyatt on 6/4/08
Dave --- buddy --- it's over. We won. Bible Park USA isn't coming to Blackman. What are you carrying on about it? Accept it. Embrace it. Move on, my friend.
Dave --- buddy --- it's over. We won. Bible Park USA isn't coming to Blackman. What are you carrying on about it? Accept it. Embrace it. Move on, my friend.
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