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By: Bluesman on 5/6/07
[However, with no firm development plans, the city couldn't properly design improvements when it originally built Medical Center parkway, said Joseph Aydelott, Murfreesboro planning director.]
Excuse me Joseph, what kind of thinking is that from a man who has lived here a few years. M'bor is one of the fastest growing areas, not only in Tenessee but the Southeast. Your title is Planning Director, you should resign today, before you cost the taxpapers any more money!
From what I read, the developers are only building turn lanes to enter and exit there business, not an extra lane for the flow of traffic.
[However, with no firm development plans, the city couldn't properly design improvements when it originally built Medical Center parkway, said Joseph Aydelott, Murfreesboro planning director.]
Excuse me Joseph, what kind of thinking is that from a man who has lived here a few years. M'bor is one of the fastest growing areas, not only in Tenessee but the Southeast. Your title is Planning Director, you should resign today, before you cost the taxpapers any more money!
From what I read, the developers are only building turn lanes to enter and exit there business, not an extra lane for the flow of traffic.
By: bota on 5/6/07
This is the same plan that was used when Old Fort Parkway was built and look what we got - the mess at the entrance to Target and the mess at the entrance to Stones River Mall. Mall Circle has helped a little over there but there is no rear entrance (yet) to Target. The same name that was associated with that mess (Pheonix) is also associated with the development off the Med-Ctr Parkway.The Planning Dept may not technicaly plan the entrances but they must set the guidelines and approve the plan and therefore are resposible for what we finally end up with. There is an old saying that could well be applied to a lot of things that are going on in Murfreesboro now, "Don't send a boy to buy the beer"
This is the same plan that was used when Old Fort Parkway was built and look what we got - the mess at the entrance to Target and the mess at the entrance to Stones River Mall. Mall Circle has helped a little over there but there is no rear entrance (yet) to Target. The same name that was associated with that mess (Pheonix) is also associated with the development off the Med-Ctr Parkway.The Planning Dept may not technicaly plan the entrances but they must set the guidelines and approve the plan and therefore are resposible for what we finally end up with. There is an old saying that could well be applied to a lot of things that are going on in Murfreesboro now, "Don't send a boy to buy the beer"
By: Pickles51 on 5/6/07
I just recently traveled the section of Medical Ctr Pkwy between I-24 and Thompson Lane and was apalled at how our tax money has been wasted. When Medical Center Pkwy opened a little over a year ago, I was stunned at how it was built "on the cheap". Here was a road that was specifically constructed to attract large scale office development, hotels, and a large medical center complex. Just with that type of planned development, common sense would dictate that a wide road (at least 6 lanes) with paved shoulders on both sides for each direction of traffic (for future right and left turn lanes) would have been built.
Now Murfreesboro is allowing a huge shopping center (and a big traffic generator) to be constructed. The brand new road is being torn up for turn lanes - but is not being widened to handle the extra traffic. Typical Middle Tennessee planning.
Two other items should have been addressed when Medical Center Pkwy was being envisioned. First, the intersection with Thompson Lane should have been a grade separated interchange. Being just a stone's throw away from Old Fort Pkwy guaranteed that this area would experience rapid development. A grade separated interchange upfront would have alleviated the traffic nightmare that is growing at this location. Second, Murfreesboro should have insisted from TDOT that the new Medical Ctr Pkwy interchange at I-24 be built in a cloverleaf style rather than a diamond pattern. Again, common sense dictates that a road with intense development planned along it is going to generate huge traffic demand. Diamond style interchanges are fine in rural areas. But in a suburban environment (especially when the site is surrounded by open land), good planning would dictate thinking ahead and constucting an interchange that will serve the area over the next 50 years.
When I was in college in New Jersey back in the early 70's, we had a guest speaker come to one of my classes. The location of our college was in an area of the state that was experiencing tremendous growth with very little infrastructure improvements. The speaker was a planner from NJDOT. His first words were, "I am simply amazed at the amount of growth that has occured in this section of New Jersey." That was a very chilling statement coming from someone who is supposed to know better. And it seems to follow with almost all government planners all over the country.
I just recently traveled the section of Medical Ctr Pkwy between I-24 and Thompson Lane and was apalled at how our tax money has been wasted. When Medical Center Pkwy opened a little over a year ago, I was stunned at how it was built "on the cheap". Here was a road that was specifically constructed to attract large scale office development, hotels, and a large medical center complex. Just with that type of planned development, common sense would dictate that a wide road (at least 6 lanes) with paved shoulders on both sides for each direction of traffic (for future right and left turn lanes) would have been built.
Now Murfreesboro is allowing a huge shopping center (and a big traffic generator) to be constructed. The brand new road is being torn up for turn lanes - but is not being widened to handle the extra traffic. Typical Middle Tennessee planning.
Two other items should have been addressed when Medical Center Pkwy was being envisioned. First, the intersection with Thompson Lane should have been a grade separated interchange. Being just a stone's throw away from Old Fort Pkwy guaranteed that this area would experience rapid development. A grade separated interchange upfront would have alleviated the traffic nightmare that is growing at this location. Second, Murfreesboro should have insisted from TDOT that the new Medical Ctr Pkwy interchange at I-24 be built in a cloverleaf style rather than a diamond pattern. Again, common sense dictates that a road with intense development planned along it is going to generate huge traffic demand. Diamond style interchanges are fine in rural areas. But in a suburban environment (especially when the site is surrounded by open land), good planning would dictate thinking ahead and constucting an interchange that will serve the area over the next 50 years.
When I was in college in New Jersey back in the early 70's, we had a guest speaker come to one of my classes. The location of our college was in an area of the state that was experiencing tremendous growth with very little infrastructure improvements. The speaker was a planner from NJDOT. His first words were, "I am simply amazed at the amount of growth that has occured in this section of New Jersey." That was a very chilling statement coming from someone who is supposed to know better. And it seems to follow with almost all government planners all over the country.
By: DMW37128 on 5/7/07
Clover-leaf interchanges are a thing of the past due to accidents. I like the diamond shape interchange with traffic signal controls in metro / developed markets. The clover-leaf you have to forward and to your left to enter a major road, and hope the person in front of you are actually moving forward.
Clover-leaf interchanges are a thing of the past due to accidents. I like the diamond shape interchange with traffic signal controls in metro / developed markets. The clover-leaf you have to forward and to your left to enter a major road, and hope the person in front of you are actually moving forward.
By: GoodIdeaMboro on 5/7/07
I think it was wise to put the road there and let the individual developers pay for any necessary changes. The people in charge of Murfreesboro planning have the city's best interest in mind.
Murfreesboro is transitioning from "town" to "city". That is a good thing.
I really wish all the unnecessary negativity toward the city's development would stop. There are very rural places that are close by, should one choose to get away from the development.
I think it was wise to put the road there and let the individual developers pay for any necessary changes. The people in charge of Murfreesboro planning have the city's best interest in mind.
Murfreesboro is transitioning from "town" to "city". That is a good thing.
I really wish all the unnecessary negativity toward the city's development would stop. There are very rural places that are close by, should one choose to get away from the development.
By: GrumpaEd on 5/7/07
No one is argueing that the road and interchange should not have been built. The problem is the vision of the city planning department under its director along with the blessings of the planning commission and city council, which was extremely limited at best.
This road was to be a "gateway." That is a glorified entry to the city and its immediate surroundings. What did these officials think was to be built on this "gateway?" Or did they think it would remain open grassy fields with a few cows grazing.
In the end it will remain a four lane divided hiway with six or more left/right turn lanes with a half dozen traffic lights to impede through traffic into and out of the city.
I'm getting a chair and umbrella to sit along the side of the "gateway" and watch the red/yellow light runners.
No one is argueing that the road and interchange should not have been built. The problem is the vision of the city planning department under its director along with the blessings of the planning commission and city council, which was extremely limited at best.
This road was to be a "gateway." That is a glorified entry to the city and its immediate surroundings. What did these officials think was to be built on this "gateway?" Or did they think it would remain open grassy fields with a few cows grazing.
In the end it will remain a four lane divided hiway with six or more left/right turn lanes with a half dozen traffic lights to impede through traffic into and out of the city.
I'm getting a chair and umbrella to sit along the side of the "gateway" and watch the red/yellow light runners.
By: oldriverdawg on 5/7/07
"But private developers are paying for most of the improvements, not taxpayers, stressed Lyons."
What is the breakout in dollars - private vs taxpayers? "Most" could be 51%. The taxpayer portion represents the amount that should be factored into the next pay raise for our city planners (non-planners?). If it's 1% of the cost, they did a pretty good job. If it's 49% they were incompetent if the road is inadequate almost immediately after opening. I don't expect long term perfection in a plan, but short term plans ought to be pretty close.
"But private developers are paying for most of the improvements, not taxpayers, stressed Lyons."
What is the breakout in dollars - private vs taxpayers? "Most" could be 51%. The taxpayer portion represents the amount that should be factored into the next pay raise for our city planners (non-planners?). If it's 1% of the cost, they did a pretty good job. If it's 49% they were incompetent if the road is inadequate almost immediately after opening. I don't expect long term perfection in a plan, but short term plans ought to be pretty close.
By: peri_winkle on 5/8/07
I'm not ordinarily a defender of the powers that be in the 'boro--and I'm not convinced that a city is preferable to a town [if you are, you might consider moving to one]--but this time, I think they may well have done the right thing whether by accident or on purpose. I'm not convinced that six lanes are needed; a four-lane seems sufficient. A six-lane would be race track; not what you want to see in the midst of retail development, or anywhere else for that matter. There's too much speeding and red-light running in this town already. And leaving the turn lanes for developers to build and fund seems prudent. The city could have spent a lot of taxpayers' dollars on that and put them in all the wrong places, totally wasting that money. They were right to leave it for the developers; they're the ones who will profit. Let them pay their own way. Sure tax revenue will increase, but that's our money, too, and it should go to meet our needs, not those of developers.
I'm not ordinarily a defender of the powers that be in the 'boro--and I'm not convinced that a city is preferable to a town [if you are, you might consider moving to one]--but this time, I think they may well have done the right thing whether by accident or on purpose. I'm not convinced that six lanes are needed; a four-lane seems sufficient. A six-lane would be race track; not what you want to see in the midst of retail development, or anywhere else for that matter. There's too much speeding and red-light running in this town already. And leaving the turn lanes for developers to build and fund seems prudent. The city could have spent a lot of taxpayers' dollars on that and put them in all the wrong places, totally wasting that money. They were right to leave it for the developers; they're the ones who will profit. Let them pay their own way. Sure tax revenue will increase, but that's our money, too, and it should go to meet our needs, not those of developers.
By: DMW37128 on 5/10/07
They still built Medical Center < leading to the new hospital > with no shoulder and they put trees / vegetation in the middle making it difficult to see the other side of the road.
Planning starts with a plan.
They still built Medical Center < leading to the new hospital > with no shoulder and they put trees / vegetation in the middle making it difficult to see the other side of the road.
Planning starts with a plan.
By: Oblio on 5/10/07
Does anyone know if anyone in the planning department has experience in urban planning. There is a lot of difference between planning for small-town or bedroom communities and planning for cities. Sometimes is seems like the people most determined to make Murfreesboro a city have the least understanding of what a city is.
As for the parkway, gateway, or whatever - I agree that a six lane is unnecessary although when they begin construction of the Old Fort to Memorial overpass we will wish we had a few extra lanes between I24 and Broad.
Wider shoulders, however, certainly would make it easier to yield to emergency vehicles. The serpentine configuration makes it much more difficult to see emergency vehicles, too.
Does anyone know if anyone in the planning department has experience in urban planning. There is a lot of difference between planning for small-town or bedroom communities and planning for cities. Sometimes is seems like the people most determined to make Murfreesboro a city have the least understanding of what a city is.
As for the parkway, gateway, or whatever - I agree that a six lane is unnecessary although when they begin construction of the Old Fort to Memorial overpass we will wish we had a few extra lanes between I24 and Broad.
Wider shoulders, however, certainly would make it easier to yield to emergency vehicles. The serpentine configuration makes it much more difficult to see emergency vehicles, too.
By: etech30 on 5/11/07
GoodIdeaMboro-The negativity is from the fact that growth has made Murfreesboro,and slowly but surely parts of the county, traffic gridlock littered with houses crammed onto lots, and farmland turned into strip malls and historic homes razed for comercial purposes. Surely you remember Murfreesboro the community before it became Murfreesboro LLC?
How can people move to parts of the county that are still rural if they are only going to be annexed? Have you seen the Urban Growth boundary? It's Murfreesboro County!
GoodIdeaMboro-The negativity is from the fact that growth has made Murfreesboro,and slowly but surely parts of the county, traffic gridlock littered with houses crammed onto lots, and farmland turned into strip malls and historic homes razed for comercial purposes. Surely you remember Murfreesboro the community before it became Murfreesboro LLC?
How can people move to parts of the county that are still rural if they are only going to be annexed? Have you seen the Urban Growth boundary? It's Murfreesboro County!
By: peri_winkle on 5/11/07
Trees are a good thing, DMW37128. The air under the crown of a tree can be a full ten degrees cooler than it is out in the open. This is not just a phenomenon of shade; it's the effect of transpiration. Trees hold the soil in place and filter toxins out of the air and soil. They're more important than seeing across the median. I'm glad to see that the city has wised up enough to require more of them and require wide enough medians to keep them alive. And I'm glad to see them put the utilities under ground so the trees can be big enough to do more than just make it look prettier. If you can see well enough to navigate safely through turns, then you can see well enough.
Oblio makes good points, as usual. I would add, though, that curves in the roads, like limiting the number of lanes, slows traffic. And while the curves may make emergency vehicles a little bit harder to see, I'm not sure that outweighs the advantage of slowing traffic.
M'boro's planners are getting smarter and smarter all the time. In time, maybe they'll catch up with Cynthia Holloway. :-)
Trees are a good thing, DMW37128. The air under the crown of a tree can be a full ten degrees cooler than it is out in the open. This is not just a phenomenon of shade; it's the effect of transpiration. Trees hold the soil in place and filter toxins out of the air and soil. They're more important than seeing across the median. I'm glad to see that the city has wised up enough to require more of them and require wide enough medians to keep them alive. And I'm glad to see them put the utilities under ground so the trees can be big enough to do more than just make it look prettier. If you can see well enough to navigate safely through turns, then you can see well enough.
Oblio makes good points, as usual. I would add, though, that curves in the roads, like limiting the number of lanes, slows traffic. And while the curves may make emergency vehicles a little bit harder to see, I'm not sure that outweighs the advantage of slowing traffic.
M'boro's planners are getting smarter and smarter all the time. In time, maybe they'll catch up with Cynthia Holloway. :-)
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