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Residents demand construction on Mosque be halted

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Several county residents spoke at Thursday night's monthly Rutherford County Commission meeting in opposition to a proposed Islamic Center on Veals Road.

Most demanded construction be halted and stopped short of demanding the buried body of a Muslim on their property be exhumed.

The 52,000-square foot Islamic Center of Murfreesboro was approved earlier this year by the Regional Planning Commission under a new state law that allows religious institutions to build whatever they want in residential neighborhoods as a "use of right."

Residents who spoke want the county commission to reconsider their approval claiming Islam is not a religion and expressing fear that Islamic Sharia law will be imposed on Murfreesboro citizens.

"Look at the history of Islam," Darrel Whaley told those gathered at the Historic Courthouse. "Look at the statements that it's making in all the countries where it rules and reigns and that is the intent right here in Rutherford County in the United States of America."

Like many residents who spoke, Whaley embraced tolerance as he asked the commission to reject the expansion plans of Murfreesboro's Muslim community.

"If you do a little listening to the news about England, Germany and France to see where they have allowed Sharia law to take over, they are suffering for it now and they will have a difficult time getting those people out," Foy Smith warned the audience.

"They want power," Smith added. "That's what Islam is about. They want power over you."

Some residents worried whether Murfreesboro Muslims were involved enough in the community.

"Since Muslim have been in this community so they say since 1982, I'd like to know which service clubs they belonged to and what local charities they've supported and how many Memorial Day services they've attended," said Pete Doughtie, publisher of The Reader, a news weekly that was removed from local Kroger stores for alleged hate speech.

"The problem is Sharia law," Doughtie said. "With Sharia law comes demands on non-Muslim communities and our way of life that has to conform to theirs or we become bigots and racist."

One resident threatened legal action against each individual commissioner if they didn't investigate the Muslim community's ties to terrorism before approving their expansion plans.

"Any failure to engage in such action will result in a lawsuit against the county and you as county commissioners individually without immunity and with attorneys fees payable by you to the prevailing plaintiffs in such suit under federal law 28 U.S.C. section 1988,"  Laurie Cardoza-Moore said.

Community anger follows the county's May approval under the Tennessee Religious Freedom Act of site plans for a Mosque to be built in a residential area off Veals Rd.

The new state law goes above and beyond a similar federal law enacted in 2000 by forcing local governments to provide "clear and convincing evidence" of the government's interest when denying building plans of religious institutions in residential neighborhoods.

Kevin Fisher, a concerned resident who appeared before the Public Works committee last week seeking answers to four questions residents have about the approval process, demanded approved construction be halted.

"We asked and we will continue to ask that any and all future work on this mosque be halted until proper environmental studies, water quality studies and traffic studies can be fully analyzed and discussed."

Fisher and others also expressed anger over the burial of a body on the property claiming it was not properly approved and poses health concerns, stopping short of demanding the body be exhumed.

"Today, the burial site does not appear to be located at the correct setback on the boundary line to the adjoining property," said Elizabeth Coker. "I urge you to evaluate and rectify this situation by the only course of action that is logical."

At least one resident claimed Islam is un-American and that the Devil is tricking people in Murfreesboro.

"Some say the greatest trick the Devil ever played on mankind was convincing people that he didn't exist," said James Estes. "If that's the case, I'd say his second greatest trick is convincing people that the God of Islam is the God of Christianity.

"This agenda of Islam is in direct conflict with American values," Estes added. "You cannot believe and obey a great deal of these verses and still embrace American values, specifically the freedom of religion."

Long time resident Sally Jones Wall told commissioners she thinks the whole thing is a conspiracy.

"I know conspiracy is a funny dirty word, but I mean that's how it looks to the community," said Wall. "Now I don't know what y'all did and what y'all thought you were doing, but it happened too quick."

The only action taken by the commission was to ask the county attorney whether or not residents can sue commissioners individually.

The commission also deferred back to a steering committee a proposal to remove all religious institutions from "use of right" zoning protections. The move drew sharp criticism from outgoing Commissioner Anthony Johnson.

"I would hate to see this 'use of right' to be completely taken out without any thought other than we got a lot of people complaining about," said Johnson. "And right now that's what we have. Man up, woman up, and do what's right. But keep protection in here for all of us."

Residents will receive answers to four submitted questions on the approval process at the Public Works Committee meeting in September. No other official action has been taken to stop the approved construction of the Islamic Center.

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August 13, 2010 at 3:47pm
"Estes added - 'You cannot believe and obey a great deal of these verses and still embrace American values, specifically the freedom of religion.' "

The oxymoron evident in that stance against this group's freedom to practice their faith speaks volumes about the narrowness with which far too many of us view others.
August 13, 2010 at 10:54pm
To ESTES and alike : There is a big difference between a God believing Christian and just an American Christian.Because Bible is the roots of Islam if you ever have read your bible and the 10 commandments.But Americans are doing everything forbidden in bible and made it law of the land what is forbidden. So what do you know about God and Religion or any of it when you have no clue about your own Religion? The only two major differences in Bible and Koran is that Koran does not imply or teach Incest ! as in Genesis in Bible and There is no trinity, or son of God and all that which indeed are the work of satanic hands that corrupted bible in so many more places. So when you come to read and understand and compare bible with Koran then you can have a legitimate say on the subject. Until then go and have your 6 pack or your smoke.
August 14, 2010 at 1:50am
It should be pointed out this group MTFR was formed barely two months ago by an organization our of Detroit, MI called SOLIDARITY - a SOCIALIST GROUP - self described on their website… they claim to have had 4-5 Solidarity members help to organize… after seeing many students from the local college - MTSU as part of this group I am curious if they are being co-opted by the Socialist org…

It wouldnl’t surprise me if the well meaning, religious-freedom students (who may attend church on a regular basis) are being utulized as ‘Useful Idiots’ to help move the bigger agenda of Solidarity…

they quote Karl Marx on their site…everyone must know that Karl Marx was no friend of Religion - especially ‘Freedom of Religion” nor was he or modern day socialist champions of individual freedom…

Why am I bringing this up? Well, I am a ‘friend’ of MTFR’s facebook page and have read scores of prrjorative terms for anyone who has questions about the mosque… like hatemongers, bigots, Islamphobes… the same type of Sal Alinsky tactics - smear the messenger, attack the messenger instead of engaging in a dialogue about the nature of Islam and why local residents are questioning this issue…

So, if I am going to be maligned and mis-characterized by a bunch of innocent-looking college students who are wrapping themselves in the constitution… then I must point out the vile and heinous goals Solidarity would like to achieve… at the expense of Liberty and true Freedom…. both the folks who have questions about the mosque and many students who are innocent dupes will both lose our freedom to debate this issue if Solidarity has it’s way…

http://www.solidarity-us.org/current/node/2954 for Solidarity’s article

read their ‘12 points’ here: http://www.solidarity-us.org/current/about

many sound like they came straight out of the Communist Manifesto…
August 14, 2010 at 11:36am
^^ This shouldn't come as a surprise, but "AnotherOption" is a liar. MTRF was formed on 04 Jul 10 by LOCAL people in the boro who were dismayed by the blatant bigotry, racism and islamophobia exibited by Kevin Fisher and his ilk. I've lived here for over 17 years graduated from Riverdale and MTSU (I'm 30) and was proud to participate in the counter demonstrations to support the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro. The Muslim community has been a part of the boro for decades and we should support each other in these difficult times. If the WOC can have a 125K sqaure foot facility and no one bats an eyelash, I don't see why it should be an issue for the ICM to have a bigger facility.
AnotherOption, you need to find better material...I know you think that no "real" Americans could possibly disagree with you, and if they do, it's because they are Marxist, Communist, Facist, Terrorist loving hippies from Michagan; but the facts are not on your side. In fact, I'd like you to prove that all those who are opposing this mosque are indeed residents of Murfreesboro, and not middle aged, anti-government, Glenn Beck following members of Storm Front or the KKK. You guys certainly sound like it. It amazes me that you can actually talk about "liberty and true freedom" while denying it to citizens of our city based solely on their religion. Shame on you.
August 14, 2010 at 10:08pm
God has placed each of here to make a choice, choose him or choose Satin. That is the total issue in the most simplest of terms.

While we are all human, and we all have souls, each soul being as precious as the next and God’s desire is to see not one soul perish, there will be those who choose not to believe this. Be very careful for your very soul is what you are gambling.

Now, and as we are approaching the end of time, Satin will attempt to confuse and lure as many of you as he can in an effort to steal as many souls as he can from God. He will tell you anything and everything up to and including that you have nothing to worry about, it’s all a hoax. Satin will use every tool at his disposal, depression, money, loneliness, desire, riches, temptation and the list goes on and on, knowing that if he can keep you from making a decision and commitment to God, he will win your soul.

During the final days, a great war will fall upon the land. Satin will gather his followers and attempt one final battle against the one and only, the Alpha and Omega, the Glorious Almighty God, and Jesus Christ along with those who believe in God and have accepted Jesus as their Savior, those who commonly are known and called Christians.

God and Christians together will stand victorious in this great battle while all others (regardless of what they think) will realize that they've been duped. Following this great battle, Satin will be chained. There will come judgment and Jesus will sit at the right hand of his father. ALL will be judged, no one will be exempt. Not even you. You will have no one else to blame, no one else to pass the buck to, you and you alone will be responsible for your choice. God has said either you are for me or against me, there is no fence sitting.

There have been periods across time where Christians have had to sacrifice their own lives to pledge their belief that Jesus died on the Cross for our sins, was raised from the dead three days later and has gone to prepare a place so wondrous that our own imagination cannot fathom, that place Christians lovingly refer to as Heaven.

Those of you who say that it sounds like Christianity and believing in God isn’t peaceful and that it sounds hateful, then KNOW this, that Satin hates God and has chosen to attempt to overthrow God and regardless that Satin knows the outcome, he wants to relish taking as many souls with him and away from God as he possibly can. God and Satin are at war, war is not pretty, and before you know it, it will be too late to make a choice. You may not be here five minutes from now. And as God has said, no choice for me equals a choice for Satin. So please don’t wait, don’t hate your fellow Christians, look to all as a chance to save one more soul from Satin. It’s not about religion, but about one fundamental belief and truth that God is and was and will forever more be the Almighty.

God has left his word in the form of the Holy Bible. It was written by man inspired by God. Not one word of the Holy Bible has ever been proven wrong. Am I scaring you with all this? I truly hope so, because to lose one’s soul forever is the ultimate loss.

I have made my choice, and I am so honored as to be asked by God to display my belief, I will continue to proudly do so in whatever means I feel God leads me to. Be it to be kind and share his word, or die for my belief. Are you as committed?

If you haven’t yet chose God, please, please, please do so. This may just be your last chance. For the Holy Bible says he comes as a thief in the night, no man knows the day or the hour...
August 15, 2010 at 8:59am
What exactly do you have against Satin? Are you more of a Silk person?
August 15, 2010 at 9:16am
Christian fundamentalism is one of the greatest divisive forces in America and our community. They have no tolerance for anyone who doesn't look or pray like they do. It's the old "with us or against us' BS. They are hellbent on this Christian Nation idea.

A little education is in order.

Nowhere in the Constitution does it mention religion, except in exclusionary terms. The words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, and God" are never mentioned in the Constitution-- not once.
John Adams wrote, "The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity." Or as George Washington wrote, ""Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause." Or as Jefferson wrote, ""We discover in the gospels a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstition, fanaticism and fabrication ." and... "No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever." etc... and I could give you dozens more. Thomas Jefferson wrote in Declaration of Indepndence that the power of the government is derived from the governed. Up until that time, it was claimed that kings ruled nations by the authority of God. The Declaration was a radical departure from the idea of divine authority. Thomas Jefferson's original wording was: "All men are created equal and independent. From that equal creation they derive rights inherent and inalienable." Congress changed that phrase, increasing its religious overtones: "All men are created equal. They are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights", thinking that would make a more convincing argument to the king.

The 1796 treaty with Tripoli states that the United States was "in no sense founded on the Christian religion" This treaty was written under the presidency of George Washington and signed under the presidency of John Adams, it was read aloud and passed unanimously without the slightest objection.

Even if your supposed fallacy of a Christian Nation were true, is America still the same nation that was founded by white Europeans who commited genocide against Native Americans, enslaved Africans, and denied women the right to vote? I think not.
August 15, 2010 at 10:53am
Republicans called Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf – leader of the Initiative to build the Cordoba House a radical cleric and criticized the Obama for including him on a Middle East speaking tour.

This is the same Feisal Abdul Rauf that Bush adviser Karen Hughes worked with as a part of the Bush Administration’s effort to improve America’s standing among Muslims abroad, a part of a national security strategy. Hughes, who was appointed Undersecretary of State for Public Diplomacy, joined Rauf as a part of the February 2006 U.S.-Islamic World Forum in Doha, Qatar. Feisal Abdul Rauf was part of a delegation that met with Hughes in March 2006 and held a joint press conference.

Bush embraces Feisal Abdul Rauf as a partner for peace. Obama does the same, he’s embracing a radical Muslim cleric.

Just goes to show the progress made by the rightwing hate machine, how conservative news outlets like Fox News have stoke fear and hate of blacks, Muslims, Mexicans, etc... among the predominantly older white Christian viewers.
August 15, 2010 at 11:07am
Have our local government attorney's and "planners" even made our legislative bodies aware of the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act passed in 2000. What do we pay these people to do other than spend our tax dollars in litigation ?
August 16, 2010 at 10:38am
Muslims demand for themselves what they deny others
August 16, 2010 at 11:39am
Did I read that people were calling for the mosque to be halted because "Islam is not a religion"? And Satin? Really? Could we have possibly meant Satan? Wow. It's no wonder that the rest of the country makes fun of the south.
August 16, 2010 at 1:36pm
nd88......ditto!! wait, and we are asking what we pay "these people" to do? has one person on this opinion thread actually ever been to our legislature? do you even go to your city council meetings for anything besides yelling "not in my back yard?" and unless you live by every single word in the bible (of course, we can't agree on which version now can we) you have no right using it to judge others. Listen to the idiocracy of your arguments people.
August 16, 2010 at 1:38pm
and one more thing......why does everyone hide who they are as they make these stupid arguments? are you ashamed? i don't live in the boro by the way. so for me, this is all about freedom. of religion. of speech.
August 16, 2010 at 3:48pm
Islam is a religion, but it is also a political movement. It's bad enough that Muslims are taught to kill nonbelievers, treat women as chattel, and kill daughters who have commited adultery (honor killings). These are just some of the basic, primitive tenets of the religion. They also want to subjugate other people, thats us, and convert them to Islam or else collect taxes from them.

Note that the Mosque proposed near ground zero is called the Cordoba building. Cordoba is where Muslims erected a mosque to celebrate their subjugation of Spain centuries ago. It has been their custom to build mosques where they have been victorious, and certainly killing 3000 infidels was a victory. I don't know of any Islamic victory in Murfreesboro. Perhaps our mosque is just premature.

An old military axiom is "Know your enemy." It is obvious that some people commenting on this article are blinded by political correctness and a spirit of tolerance. Folks, please do some research. Know your enemy or it will destroy you.
August 16, 2010 at 3:55pm
I can’t believe that people are this paranoid, afraid, and stupid. It’s disappointing. This article singled out a few nut jobs…but I’m afraid that this represents a lot of what people really think and believe in these parts. I’m with the Muslims on this one. These Christians deserve the competition. Maybe for once, these bible-thumping buffoons will find out what it’s like to have a bunch of nonsense crammed down their throats. How dare these Muslims tell people what to think, how to act, how to talk, and how to walk…That’s the Christians’ job! For those of you who really believe these fairy tales…stop believing and repeating everything your preachers say or everything you hear on talk radio.
August 16, 2010 at 3:58pm
dover,
how many local Muslim families do you know? How many Muslims friends and associates do you have?

Here's the the guy who says "know your enemy" and I'll bet my bottom dollar the answer to al of the above questions is NO. Of course (s)he would not admit to such ignorance.
August 16, 2010 at 8:06pm
Ellie

I retired several years ago from employment with the Intelsat Satellite System. I had regular business dealings with personnel of the long distance telephone companies of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait and UAE. I met several times a year with them, sometimes in Washington, DC and sometimes in their countries. I got to know some of them very well. Which of them harbored resentment agains me,if any, I don't know. I can say that the Islamic fundamentalists don't have horns and fangs. And thats a problem.

Dover
August 16, 2010 at 9:47pm
Why did we spend nearly a trillion bucks (that we didn’t have) to “free Muslims in Iraq” when we deny them freedom in America?

Under Sharia Law, religious freedom is restricted. Aren’t we better than that?

Is it being a ‘good American’ to apply Constitutional freedoms based on race, religion, and political correctness?

What side of this issue do you want to be remembered for as the community and America becomes home to more Muslim families? My doctor is a Muslim, my favorite restaurant owner is a Muslim, I've known these people for decades. They are fine and trust worthy people. What kind of American are you to deny these members of our community their Constitutional rights based on their religion?

August 17, 2010 at 9:01am
To imran:

So how old was Mohammad when he married the 6 year old? (I think he was in his 60s) Thats the moon god of arabia for you.
August 17, 2010 at 10:41am
You fearful people. Look at yourselves…you’re letting your fear compromise our freedoms. You are letting the terrorists win. They WANT you to think all Muslims are terrorists, they WANT you to be afraid. They WANT you to to give up freedoms.

Are you a real patriot? Or just fearful people who feel threatened from a 1% minority religion. So much so, they want to violate the US Constitutional protections for freedom of religion. Now that’s pretty fearful… and pathetic.

If so, you don't deserve the liberty our founders guaranteed.

Ben Franklin said: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

What would Ben Franklin say on the subject of religious freedom in America if he were alive today?


August 17, 2010 at 12:59pm
Love it, MattMan...Simply love it... :)
August 18, 2010 at 3:37pm
Satin?! I prefer silk.
August 19, 2010 at 12:58am
Some of you said well you don't even know a muslim - well I do - lots of them. I am from TN, graduated from MTSU but I now live in Michigan (the largest muslim population in the world other than the arabic countries) My neighbors on both sides of me are muslim. I am christian. First I would like to say that it saddens me that I am being called an ignorant bible thumper because I am christian but I am suppose to be tolerant of the muslims. Who is being tolerant of me? How many of you know that the leaders of islam had an actual meeting to decide how to turn USA into a muslim country (along with the other nations of the world)? Well they did. It was decided that they would build these huge mosques, move into the areas and populate it. My neighbors (who are very nice and good neighbors) asked us to visit their new super mosque for an open house. He said that they wanted to show people that they were peaceful "not building bombs ha ha". When my husband pointed out that the iman was teaching just the opposite, he could not deny that. I don't think that there is anything you can do to stop the building of this mosque, just as in NYC, but don't be deceived by "we are peaceful people." There is an agenda. And by the way - who is paying for this huge mosque and are there enough muslims to support this size building. There will be soon. They will start moving in so quickly, that your head will spin.
August 19, 2010 at 1:07am
One more thing, if you don't think this will change your life, think again. Here in Michigan, some of the high schools are having their football practices from 12a.m. to 4a.m. because of ramadan. The muslims are allowed to step out into the hallways at different times of the day to pray at the schools. The christians are not allowed to pray (you know all that no prayer in school biz) In one of our towns here, the mosque sounds a siren at different times of the day to let them know it is time to pray. It is so loud, that it is almost deafening for the people who live close by. Recently a new temple was built in my home town. It has several domes over 30 feet tall on the top of the building, a new christian church was built but not allowed to have a steeple. Everyone wants to be so politicaly correct and they don't want to seem like a bigot but those same people have no problem calling the christians names and not being tolerate of a christian having a different opinion. If you don't believe in christianity, thats O.K. but should you not be just as tolerant toward christians as muslims?
August 19, 2010 at 9:41am
tth,
You're a college grad? Hard to believe.

Why is it that the Christians as a group feel most threatened?

Hey douchebag, did you know that Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf of the so-called 'Ground Zero Mosque' was employed by GW Bush and the FBI to fight terrorism?

Get a clue.
August 19, 2010 at 11:32am
"Several county residents spoke at Thursday night's monthly Rutherford County Commission meeting in opposition to a proposed Islamic Center on Veals Road."

"Most demanded construction be halted and stopped short of demanding the buried body of a Muslim on their property be exhumed."

Thank you county residents for your efforts! I hope the Islamic Center is never built!! Keep America Beautiful,free, and American!

August 19, 2010 at 1:02pm
Stopping the mosque seems to violate the basic crust of our constitution which states in part, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances”. Let freedom ring!
The majority of framers of the constitution were not conservative Christians. 18 were Freemasons who added this very guarantee as the 1st amendment to the constitution to protect them from just such acts called “mob rule”.
While I might not agree with their religious doctrine and the timing of this request, we can not violate our own constitution.
August 19, 2010 at 1:59pm
Doesn't matter to bigots, their hate and ignorance overrides the Constitution. They don't deserve the freedom it guarantees. They are cowards, fearful of a minority religion that is a tiny fraction of 1% in this county.
August 19, 2010 at 3:08pm
ellie writes: "Doesn't matter to bigots, their hate and ignorance overrides the Constitution. They don't deserve the freedom it guarantees. They are cowards, fearful of a minority religion that is a tiny fraction of 1% in this county."

You are in no position to judge who does or does not "deserve" constitutional protection. I spent the best part of my adult life in the Armed Forces protecting your right to empathize with a religion that would treat you as little more than chattel and I oppose the mosque and "community center". How dare you tell me, or anyone what they do and do not deserve.

Moreover, your arrguement about percentage of population is meaningless. Adolph Hitler had 25 peope at his first Nazi party meeting, roughly .0000003% of the population. Indeed, people should have abjected to him, and didn't. The evil perpetrated by the Nazis that followed is legend.

People have the constitutional right to object to the construction of the mosque and it is not your decision to determine whether or not they "deserve" that constitutional guarantee.

While the first ammendment guarantees us all the freedom of speech and of religion it does not give you the right to scream fire in a crowded theater, nor does it give anyone the right to preach sedition. In effect, it does not require us to allow the fox to set up shop in the hen house.

People have all kinds of legitimate reasons to be fearful of Islam. it is not Christians, Jews, Hindus, or Buddhists flying planeloads of people into occupied buildings in the name of holy war, blowing up subways in London and planting bombs in Times Square. Neither are they randomly shooting people on Army Posts in the name of their religion or attempting to blow up commercial airplanes.

The Islamists will have their mosque, no thanks to their own intolerance, but to a constitution they abhor and a freedom they would deny all of us in the name of Islam.

People have every bit as much right to oppose it without being labeled cowards by you.
August 19, 2010 at 3:38pm
You're a coward. My personal physician is a Muslim and has lived in Murfreesboro for 15 years. He is a family man with 2 kids and is a basketball coach at the local school in his spare time. Are you going to tell him that he and his family can't have the same rights as any other citizen because of his religion? You are a disgusting bigot and do not deserve the freedoms many have died for to protect. You are the American version of the Taliban that persecutes people because of their religion. You are no better than they are and you don't deserve the freedoms America has fought for, not says me, but says Ben Franklin, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

Reminder, the guy yu voted for twice spent nearly a trilion dollars and more American blood than was spilled on 9/11 to supposedly "free the Iraqis" - a Muslim country ... just so we can deny them freedom in our own country?

You advocate EXACTLY what the Nazi did to the Jews.
August 19, 2010 at 3:46pm
Conservative Phl Valentine's take on the Mosque controversy - worth a listen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxv4HDG2b-I
August 19, 2010 at 5:38pm

Because some of you have quoted John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington and Ben Franklin let me also provide some quotes from those very same gentlemen courtesy of Tex Browning a southern gentleman, who has done his homework.
Most of the fifty-five Founding Fathers who worked on the Constitution were members of orthodox Christian churches and many were even evangelical Christians. The first official act in the First Continental Congress was to open in Christian prayer, which ended in these words: "...the merits of Jesus Christ, Thy Son, our Savior.
John Adams stated so eloquently during this period of time that; "The general principles on which the fathers achieved Independence were ... the general principles of Christianity ... I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that the general principles of Christianity are as etemal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."
Later, John Quincy Adams answered the question as to why, next to Christmas, was the Fourth of July this most joyous and venerated day in the United States. He answered: "...Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer’s mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity?"
John Quincy Adams went on to say that the biggest victory won in the American Revolution was that Christian principles and civil government would be tied together in what he called an "indissoluble" bond. The Founding Fathers understood that religion was inextricably part of our nation and government. The practice of the Christian religion in our government was not only welcomed but encouraged.
George Washington said in his "Farewell Address": "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars."
Ben Franklin, at the Constitutional Convention, said: "...God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?"
Granted, God is not mentioned in the Constitution, but He is mentioned in every major document leading up to the final wording of the Constitution. For example, Connecticut is still known as the "Constitution State" because its colonial constitution was used as a model for the United States Constitution. Its first words were: "For as much as it has pleased the almighty God by the wise disposition of His Divine Providence…

I was a fifth grade teacher so it comes naturally for me to say “let’s do our homework” I guarantee you the Muslims, Jihadists, Islamists (radical or not) are doing theirs; at the very least they abide by their own religious edicts. Those of you who are arguing the rights of the Muslims are counting on the Constitution to protect those rights, and your own.This is exactly what the Muslims are counting on. Lucky you, you have the freedom to do that, for now. Do you suppose they would fight for your rights as a Jew or a Christian or an atheist? If they can get their laws into effect you won't have any rights. Lucky you, you have the freedom to fight, for now. Ever heard of Taqiyya: The practice of concealing one’s faith in dangerous circumstances originates in the Qur’an itself, example Q 16:106 in particular.
an example of what could come.

It is when bin Laden speaks to fellow Muslims that the truth comes out. When a group of prominent Muslims wrote an open letter to the American people soon after the strikes of 9/11, saying that Islam seeks to peacefully coexist,[44] bin Laden wrote to castigate them:
As to the relationship between Muslims and infidels, this is summarized by the Most High’s Word: “We [Muslims] renounce you [non-Muslims]. Enmity and hate shall forever reign between us—till you believe in God alone” [Qur'an 60:4]. So there is an enmity, evidenced by fierce hostility from the heart. And this fierce hostility—that is, battle—ceases only if the infidel submits to the authority of Islam, or if his blood is forbidden from being shed [i.e., adhimmi, or protected minority], or if Muslims are at that point in time weak and incapable. But if the hate at any time extinguishes from the heart, this is great apostasy! … Such then is the basis and foundation of the relationship between the infidel and the Muslim. Battle, animosity, and hatred—directed from the Muslim to the infidel—is the foundation of our religion. And we consider this a justice and kindness to them.[45]

Bottom line, if you aren't a Muslim, you are an Infidel.
LJ
August 19, 2010 at 7:24pm
Christians ordered to kill infidels (2 Chronicles 15:13):
"anyone who refused to seek the Lord, the God of Israel, would be put to death—whether young or old, man or woman."

Christians are ordered to kill those who worship differently (Exodus 22:20):
"He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed."

It is really scary that our community is dominated by such a violent religion.
August 19, 2010 at 7:50pm
Iizajames,well said,but where are the Imam's words or for that matter any Imam's words denouncing what is spoken by bin Laden[ terrorist,may you rot in hell],you never hear any of the clerics speaking that maybe a critical inquiry of Islam should be openly discussed.Until then,I consider Islam to be a cult that is political motivated,witness,Iran,Saudi Arabia,Egypt......
We are not Infidel's.
Will the Imam in the 'Boro support the US constitution,the bill of rights,maybe even speak out against the Muslim Brotherhood and last about the funding of this mosque[it is after all a fair amount money].
Nothing against Muslim's,but one look around.......Next,Shariah Law,why?
August 19, 2010 at 8:04pm
@ellie
Please inform all of recent beheadings,lost limbs[ you know,chopped off]Christian's recent orders to kill if one were to talk ill of Christianity,free speech works both ways,but Islam opposes this freedom,WHY?
August 19, 2010 at 8:04pm
Summary Answer:

Many Muslims are loyal to the non-Muslim countries in which they live, of course, but it is in spite of Islamic teaching. Unlike other faiths, Islam is not just a religion but a political system as well. The state is intended to be inseparable from religious rule. Islamic law, or Sharia, is complete and not designed to coexist with or be subordinate to other legal systems. Muslims are not meant to be ruled by non-Muslims. The Qur'an is very clear that they are to resist unbelievers by any means until Islam establishes political supremacy. This doesn't mean that everyone must be forced to become Muslim, but rather that everyone must submit to Muslim rule.

Islam teaches that nations are in one of two major categories - dar-al Harb (house of war) and dar-al-Islam (Muslim rule). Any nation that is not Muslim is therefore, by definition, at war with Islam (or, at best, in contradiction to the preferred order). Muslims cannot be expected to maintain loyalty to a nation that is at war with their religion.

Islamic law is absolutely incompatible with democracy. It is a theocratic system with Allah alone at its head. Allah's law is interpreted by a ruling body of clerics. There is no room for a secular political system in which all people are treated as equals.

Qur'an (45:21) - "What! Do those who seek after evil ways think that We shall hold them equal with those who believe and do righteous deeds,- that equal will be their life and their death? Ill is the judgment that they make." Unbelievers are not equal to Muslims. This is dutifully reflected in Islamic law.

It is my strong opinion that we need to educate ourself, educate others, and speak truthfully about "the Religion of Peace". Islam is it's own worst enemy in that the more that is known about it, the less attractive it becomes... to everyone.
August 19, 2010 at 8:15pm
You despicable cowards, ignorant and afraid of a tiny less than 1% of the population. How is a tiny group of people in Middle Tennessee going to take over the government and impose Sharia Law? Are you mentally ill? Or just cowardly fools? Or just plain bigots?
August 19, 2010 at 8:17pm
The most recent bombing of the North Florida Mosque in May shows us that Muslims have a lot more to fear from non-Muslims in America than non-Muslims have to fear from them.
August 19, 2010 at 8:19pm
@redwing,
This is AMERICA ... we are better than those Muslim nations where people are NOT free to worship as they please. Are you just as bad as they are? Yes, I think you've proven that.
August 19, 2010 at 8:26pm
@ellie
You despicable cowards...............
In response lets see this 'religion of peace' in action and True to it's word,as was said above,one look around.
August 19, 2010 at 8:31pm
@redwing
How does it feel to give the terrorists what they want - to give them a victory? They WANT you to think all Muslims are terrorists. They WANT you to be afraid. They WANT you to to give up freedoms out of fear.

You are unAmerican.
August 19, 2010 at 9:47pm
I fell sorry for ellie she knows not what she says.
August 19, 2010 at 10:17pm
Ellie, you are quoting from Old Testament.Christians were not ordered to kill Infidels in the Old Testament because there were no Christians in the Old Testament. I read the passage 2chron 15:13 that you quoted. God did not order anyone to be killed, King Asa did and that was after the prophet told him that God would be with him if they kept His precepts; he got rid of all the idols, anyone caught worshiping idols after that would be killed. He was talking to the people of Judah.
As far as Ex 22:20 goes, If one broke the Levitical law then they were killed because the elders taught that God would bring judgment on the whole city if someone went unpunished ,i.e. Sodom and Gomorrah. There were so many rules and regulations to follow and animal sacrifices made to atone for 'one's sin" it was impossible to keep up with it all so God in His infinite mercy said "enough already" and He sent Jesus who became the Sacrifice. I am paraphrasing of course, too much else to cover. Infidel means "unbeliever" so the Muslims basically are saying if your not with us, you are against us. The Christians are suppose to be spreading the "good news" not ramming it down peoples throats. An invitation so to speak. There are a lot of people out there that say they are Christians and aren't. There are a lot of Christians that have your best interests at heart and don't know how to teach/preach the gospel. The very definition of a Christian is "one who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ" We all could take a lesson from him even if you are not a Christian.
August 19, 2010 at 11:27pm
Oh, so you get to pick and choose what parts of the Bible you want to obey... kind of like the US Constitution. OK. I see.

So, you choose to ignore and rationalize the Old Testament... let's quote from the NEW TESTAMENT:


Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword."
Matthew 10:34-36:
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it's better to be "maimed" than to suffer "everlasting fire."
Matthew 18:8-9
18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Jesus will take "vengeance on them that know not God" by burning them forever "in flaming fire." 1:7-9
2 Thessalonians 1:9 :
in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power

If you are really a Christian, you are sworn to believe these principles of cruelty and violence. It sounds more like an authoritarian dictatorship.

Wow, if you don't obey the Bible, you will be eternally tortured. Does that sound like a peaceful religion to you?
August 19, 2010 at 11:31pm
My point is, your ignorant narrow understanding of Islam justifies your fear and hate. You can justify just about anything you want with a literal and shallow understanding of these ancient texts, written by men during the Dark Ages.... you know, back when they thought the world was flat. Kind of backward, don't you think?
August 20, 2010 at 12:19pm
Ellie, or whatever your name is, I have a BS from UGA and M.ED from Ga State. I taught school for 20 years, I am hardly ignorant. I don't misunderstand the Bible.
The language employed by Jesus in Matt 18:8,9 contexts does employ a figure of speech that is common to all languages. It is called hyperbole. He was saying “Keep your eye on eternal things; don’t be mislead by temporal and physical distractions" Jesus has not taken vengeance on people, yet. He does however; warn us, we have a choice. Do Muslims have a choice?
Phil 2:12 work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
2 Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
I have pointed out clearly that if one is a Christian one follows the teachings of Jesus Christ, hence the title "Christian" who incidentally didn't come on the "physical scene" until the New Testament.
If you want to get into a Biblical debate with me, bring it. You obviously have limited understanding, so getting into a Biblical discussion with you would be like getting into an argument with a preschooler, not exactly challenging. I taught kindergarten too; if you are going to stand on convictions, better learn to back them up more convincingly. I don't have the time to continue disagreeing with you. You on the other hand seem to have plenty of time, are you manning this particular blog for some purpose? One can only guess. I joined this dialogue because I am doing some research.
You like to defend the Muslims, could it be that you are one? You obvious have some knowledge of the Qur'an.
Whenever I get on this “chat” there you are throwing insults at people; how fortunate that you can exercise your constitutional rights, freedom of speech, etc., tell me ellie, do Muslims have the same Constitutional rights? Of course they do, if they live in this great country.
I have no fear or hate towards anyone; I am however watching some cultures closer than others if for no other reason that those cultures, factions, religions happen to be in the news frequently. I was a Current Events teacher too, hard to shake the habit of being conversant in Political issues.
You say:
“My point is, your ignorant narrow understanding of Islam justifies your fear and hate. You can justify just about anything you want with a literal and shallow understanding of these ancient texts, written by men during the Dark Ages.... you know, back when they thought the world was flat. Kind of backward, don't you think?”
I am not afraid and admit I don’t know much about Islam. I can and do make evaluations based on what I see in the news everyday and have made additional observations by reading your uninformed and poorly researched grandstanding. Personally I would give you a D-.
Hosea 4:6 my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:

As far as my shallow understanding of “Ancient texts written by men in the dark ages” I assume you are referring to the Bible;
2 Tim 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: Sounds as if the writers were pretty enlightened.

The following is quoted from: The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks upon the United States
"Osama Bin Ladin and other Islamist terrorist leaders draw on a long tradition of extreme intolerance within one stream of Islam (a minority tradition), from at least Ibn Taimiyyah, through the founders of Wahhabism, through the Muslim Brotherhood, to Sayyid Qutb. That stream is motivated by religion and does not distinguish politics from religion, thus distorting both. Because the Muslim world has fallen behind the West politically, economically, and militarily for the past three centuries, it has attracted active support from thousands of disaffected young Muslims and resonates powerfully with a far larger number who do not actively support his methods. The resentment of America and the West is deep, even among leaders of relatively successful Muslim states." If the shoe fits ellie, wear it.

August 20, 2010 at 7:47pm
@ lizajames
Great comment to Ellie,you have made my evening,do have a great weekend.
Cheers
August 20, 2010 at 7:59pm
To redwing I like to get to the bottom of things,always have. you have a great weekend yourself. By the way, do you know the name of the editor or publisher of this paper? Thanks Liza
August 20, 2010 at 9:14pm
Liza,as per question,I'm afraid I can't be of any help,sorry.
Cheers
August 23, 2010 at 10:59am
To ellie:

Why are you so hateful toward everyone? You want everyone to hear your opinon and respect it but if anyone disagrees they are called names. You must live for hate. So sad for you. I will say a prayer for you.
August 24, 2010 at 8:26am
There was a saying once that I find so appropriate, "If you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything". It's so easy for some to reduce themselves to name calling.

My point is and always will be to stand up for what I believe in. Too many times, we as Americans fail to say what we believe, why? Because we fear that it won't be "politically" correct, or might hurt someone's feelings. Commenting on how you feel, when done with tact and common decency is not wrong nor should it be discouraged. After all THAT is what our Constitution, which I and several others have fought to defend, is partially about. Many a night, have I listened in the desert to the Islamic “Call to Prayer” that was cast from loudspeakers? It’s a powerful thing to hear out in the middle of nowhere in the dead quiet of night, the wailing of the prayer call. I have personally been told by several Muslims that they welcomed the United State's presence in their country "as long" as it fit their needs, but was also told to sleep with one eye open for they would not hesitate to kill us if they felt we threatened their religion or beliefs.

I would NEVER profess to know everything and can only say that I know a little about quite a few things. In fact, every time I read my bible I learn something new. My beliefs “ellie” (just like yours) are just that, MY BELIEFS. Please realize that your name calling serves (at best) to give others a picture of your character and doesn't do much to strengthen your argument/position.

There are several great points to all this discussion/give and take, and nary a subject broaches more feeling than one's own religion (no we won't even add the fact that Islam is more than just a religion).

It's VERY important for all to have a position on this as well as other subjects. While I am totally against Islam, for many reasons, I am not opposed to sharing my faith with them in an effort to share God's Love. Just like in other religions, Christians when attempting to convert others to their religion emphasizes the good things. NOTE THAT I SAID "JUST LIKE IN OTHER RELIGIONS". Others do it as well. Since I'm not trying to convert anyone, I don't mind pointing out the "so called" bad with the good. I smile when folks try to criticize God and tout that he's supposed to be only a loving God or that Christianity is supposed to be a peaceful religion. God IS loving, however he is also a JUST God and the bible (no matter WHAT VERSION) you want to pick, is clear to point out that we should fear God. It's clear that God sent armies to wipe out those who opposed him just like the Islamic faith touts intolerance to any that opposes it.

While some may shout anger and hatred about this idea, that's simply the way it is. It's like saying that an ant should get angry at humans for being more powerful and intelligent. That is simply humorous. I don't mind at all that I am subjugated to God, after all I am only human and God is God.

I am proud to be an American, I am proud to be a Christian. I am proud that I have served my country, the United States of America. I am proud to stand up for what I believe. I am one of those who get teary eyed when watching our flag fly. I stand up and salute the flag when our national anthem is played. I don't spout hate. You can disagree with me, that's perfectly fine with me. Call me a name, that’s fine too. What do I have against Satan? EVERYTHING!
Christians just like other religions, are misunderstood too. I don't DEMAND that you believe as I do, I take the position, if I am wrong, what happens? But if YOU are wrong... what happens? Are you prepared for the consequences? I am. Don't underestimate me. While my body may be weak, my spirit is strong. I agree with those of the Islamic faith in ONE THING, and that is God is worth dying for. I am tolerant with other religions and beliefs as long as they don’t prevent me from practicing what I believe in.
August 31, 2010 at 11:06am
I remember that when I was a kid, my daddy used to point out the site or the ground around it as a slave cemetery dating back to the 1860's. Has anyone investigated this?
December 31, 2010 at 4:52am
Email the distributor of The Reader and let them know how you feel about hate speech. They have already pulled this publication from Krogers and KFC due to complaints about mean-spirited hate rhetoric and they need to hear from you:
dkarbows@distributech.net
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