By: Paused on 2/9/09
Is it just my computer or does the first picture cover half of the article?

By: diddlede on 2/9/09
No it is not your computer as mine is the same way. Guess the Post messed up on this one.

By: buddyb1 on 2/9/09
Yep, the picture covers half the article.

By: mikewest on 2/9/09
Sorry, but it's not covering anything. Just scroll down.

By: SocEtTuem on 2/9/09
No it's not covering anything, it's all there.

By: diddlede on 2/9/09
Looks like they fixed it. But the picture did definitely cover part of the story. Looks like they moved the part that was being covered to the lower part of the article.

By: tnlonestar on 2/9/09
This person should be held responsable for stealing the love of these children & parents that cannot be ever be fully replaced. I know because ive been through it myself. Even though i tried to be a father & never stoped loving my Daughter She was stolen from me at about 6 months old.The mother for her own greed & trying to punish me did this ,but i never gave up. I finally found her at the age 15 & told her who i was & it really tore her up. She told me that she always had the feeling that her father that raised her wasnt her real father? I ask'ed her why she thought that & she replied that he always treated her different than her sister & she looked nothing like none of them. But after all of this We are not close like a Father & Daughter should be & it's because of what her mother & family done by stealing our love. Its been a year & a half now & i love her with all of my heart,But i fear it will never be right. She has 3 Sisters & 2 Brothers & we all want her love like we love each other. My family is very close & there all Daddys Babys & they'll all tell you that, But my oldest will never know that feeling from her real father. It really hurts!

By: attagirl on 2/9/09
Think of the mind games this man had to play on those kids to make them forget their parents and their life in Tennessee. That's about as evil as a person can be.

By: Paused on 2/9/09
Oh, it is fixed now. I'm glad it wasn't my computer it must have been some kind of hiccup when the article was posted? Thanks to those who said it wasn't just me.

Mike, I had to scroll down to post...but thanks!

By: diddlede on 2/9/09
I believe this situation should be let to lie. Mr. Maples will be in court soon and the truth will come out there. The children have a life of their own now and whatever they choose to do with it is their business. Since they did not reunite with their parents sounds like it will take a long time to undo whatever has been done. God be with everyone in the family as they deal with this in the coming days.

By: Mitch on 2/10/09
Vists with family...how crazy. Mr. Maples should rot alone without contact from anyone in jail his cell for the rest of sad little life.

By: tnwolf1762 on 2/10/09
GIVEN THE TIME, AND SITUATION AND BKNOWING HOW MANY CHILDREN HAVE BEEN FURTHER HARMED AND EVEN KILLED DUE TO THE LACK OF ABILITY
BY CHILDREN SERVICES NATION WIDE AND FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE HERE IN TN, I CANNOT SAY I'D HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY.

By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/10/09
The ironic thing is that this will work out very well for Marvin, his wife had passed on. He can pick up where his old life left off. He ends up being reunited with old family and friends, and at least he remembers them. His grandkids on the other hand are left with...

By: Sameera on 2/11/09
I wonder how things will go when Marvin finally comes face-to-face with Debbie? Since Marvin declined to see Debbie in San Jose and Debbie had to communicate what she would like to say to him second-hand through the press, nobody can ever know what his reaction would have been. But they have to come face-to-face sooner or later.

By: Sameera on 2/11/09
To SanJose Charlie

I don't know if things have worked out that well for Marvin. If he hadn't made that slip in the bar he could well be still in hiding with his grandchildren, living a cosy retirement and leading a happy life in San Jose. I bet he's really kicking himself for that mistake. As a result, the game is up for him, he loses his cosy life in San Jose, his grandchildren, and he faces the prospect of a prison sentence. He's probably wishing for another stroke to carry him off rather than face any more of what he is going through right now.

By: SOUTHSIDECA on 2/11/09
TO SAMEERA
I can't wait until you eat your hateful words. IF you had half a brain you would realize this man had no retirement since he gave up his identity, his "cozy" apartment was nothing in comparison to the house he left, and he had rotten daughter who tried to sue her sisters for his assets that she thought he left to her sisters. He has a rotten daughter who chose to stay in a disgusting situation that changed those kids lives forever. What kind of person says "He's probably wishing for another stroke..."
This man did not make a mistake.
He is a HERO, I'm sorry if you dont' like it.

By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/11/09
How do you know Debbie is rotten? Mostly I hear very good things about her. I don't know if she sued her siblings. But, if I was her and I suspected my siblings of being in collusion with my mentally ill mother who kidnapped my kid? I would sue my siblings, no problem... wouldn't you? I don't know if the story is true though but it would explain the report that Debbie sisters sided with Marvin. Who knows if this is true though... The Maple supporters are quite adept at getting their "view" out there. The Sandra and Marvin supporters? Bless their little hearts, they seem to be ethically challenged. Bill Clinton is more honest.

Anyway, Marvin is not a hero, he is a felon and it appears he could not say NO to his wacky wife if what other eye witness posters are saying is true.

Sameera may have a point, there are many that would prefer to live in a condo in mild San Jose, then in the Nashville area. I know a lady there who yearns for California weather and activities, she can't afford to move back though. Also, South Side... another eyewitness has already stated to you, that Marvin left behind a fairly average house in Murfeesboro. So you got that wrong too. The more I read... The Maples supporters should try to be more logical. When some crazy guy tells me about a blue flying saucer with little green men... From now on, I will call that... Telling a Maple.

By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/11/09
Hey check this giant board out. Cut and paste into browser. Might as well start with page 24.

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=240362&page=24

By: SOUTHSIDECA on 2/13/09
"I don't know if she sued her siblings. But, if I was her and I suspected my siblings of being in collusion with my mentally ill mother who kidnapped my kid? I would sue my siblings, no problem... wouldn't you? I don't know if the story is true though but it would explain the report that Debbie sisters sided with Marvin. Who knows if this is true though... The Maple supporters are quite adept at getting their "view" out there. The Sandra and Marvin supporters? Bless their little hearts, they seem to be ethically challenged. Bill Clinton is more honest."

Now you are reaching...and you think I should be more logical. Sure.
How about this....for logic.
I wonder if SanJose Charlie is the dirty rat (or SNITCH-however you want to define it) that turned John in. Did you get a reward for this or ?? Why else would someone spend so much time posting on this topic?
I hope you are not who I think you are. That would make YOU a wuss.

By: mboroan on 2/13/09
"he had rotten daughter who tried to sue her sisters for his assets that she thought he left to her sisters"

SouthsideCA: did we ever establish how the proceeds from the sale of the Maples' house got to them? Or did they get to them? The house had a "for sale" sign when Karen Hornsby went looking for them ten days after they disappeared, and someone not in the Maple family is living in that house (and has been for years, maybe even several someones); I'm going to assume it sold. Where is that money??? DID the sisters get it? My bet is that IF Debbie sued the sisters (and I don't know whether or not that happened) her reason was to force their hand in an attempt get some proof of where that money went in order to try to track down her parents. If one or both of her sisters facilitated the sale of the house and got the money to their parents through some means, Debbie would sure want to know that so that she could find out where they might have been even if they weren't still there...and she may have felt the only way to have a chance of getting any information out of them was to again try to use the legal system to do it.

By: SOUTHSIDECA on 2/14/09
REGARDING: By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/11/09
Hey check this giant board out. Cut and paste into browser. Might as well start with page 24.

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=240362&page=24

You have got to be kidding me. Those people are just fans of the show and they believe what the show wanted them to. To them, it is one big soap opera/drama. You can't possibly take the opinions on that board as credible since they are obviously all people who are hooked on a t.v. show. Here we go again, now who is seeing flying saucers and little green men?
The story is starting to unfold folks, and it's not in your favor.

By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/14/09
If it's a Church of Christ observer, the little green man flying that saucer is Satan himself, but he is everywhere with that crowd, telling folks to stay away from this or that. The deluded think he controls those working for the sheriff, social workers...etc.

If you read that board from the beginning, you would see that some of the posters have been following this case for many, many years. South Side, stop drinking the Marvin Kool-Aid. I am sure Marvin (not John) can give you some cool juice cocktail ideas. Twenty years with a twist of lemon and a dash of cranberry juice on the holidays. Certainly more then the Baskins received.

By: PCLady on 2/14/09
southsideca, those "people" are called sleuths. there are several message boards of this kind. websleuths is probably the most popular.

By: SOUTHSIDECA on 2/14/09
Yeah, I'm from the Church of Christ. What the &*@#%**!!
I'm surrounded by those who are knowledgeable on the subject of child molestation through personal experiences, and those who have street knowledge and common sense.
I don't care what Church you are from because the Good will always prevail over Evil---
Anyhow, does anyone know if there was a reward for turning Marvin Maple in or giving information on his whereabouts? I heard it was 50,000 and would like to clarify this rumor?

By: Sameera on 2/15/09
To Southsideca,

Yes, the Baskin segment from Unsolved Mysteries said there was a reward for information to help solve the case. I can't remember what the amount was, but I presume the reward still stands. I've been wondering if there are going to be takers for it now that we've finally got some candidates!

By: SOUTHSIDECA on 2/15/09
How can we find out how much it was? Thannk you for the information. Does the show put up the money or how does it work, like is there a reward for all of their stories or?

By: jvschicago on 3/3/09
southside,

You may know people knowledgeable on the subject of child molestation through personal experiences. Well, I've had some personal experience with that as well. I also know people who have had first-hand experience with having been foolish enough to allow their parents temporary custody of their children, only to subsequently face the very same type of false allegations in court by their own parents, desperate to retain custody of their grandchildren.

When my best friend found herself pregnant in college, she agreed to allow her parents to take care of her daughter until she graduated. Afterwards though, her parents didn't want to give her daughter up, and they took her to court alleging neglect and abuse as well. After losing, they not only initiated a "grandparents visitation suit" against her, but even tried "kidnapping" her daughter from the daycare center. My friend agreed to drop the charges in return for her parents agreement to never again file a lawsuit against her. The alienation between them is irreparable.

While she was enduring all this, we followed a murder trial that was broadcast live on Court TV. The murder trial of Bobby White, who murdered his son-in-law, execution style, after losing custody of his grandson following similar circumstances. Bobby White's defense alleged sexual abuse of his grandson as the reason for commiting the murder. There were many reasons these allegations were believed to be false, and the jury found Bobby White guilty of premeditated first degree murder. If interested, you can look up the specifics on the Court TV website.

My point is that grandparents fabricating these types of allegations against the parents in a desperate attempt to gain custody of their grandbabies is far from unique. Speaking as a grandparent myself, I don't just understand and fully empathize with the heartbreak of these grandparents. As my own grandbabies had to move for daddy's job over 2,000 miles away, I LIVE it! The pain is almost more than I can bear, and I have more than an idea of the desperation the Maples must have felt. It's not like I haven't fantasized about how wonderful it would be if my husband and I could raise them in our home, and I would do almost anything to make that fantasy a reality--almost.

I can even imagine all kinds of ways to rationalize such an act of desperation. I have no doubt my husband and I would make the better parents. We could give our grandbabies a better life as we make far more money and have a nicer home in an upscale neighborhood. We're are a lot more capable as we have more patience and experience, and even believe we love and value the babies more. They've made a lot of irresponsible and selfish decisions, squander their money and make all kinds of mistakes--as young adults just starting out in life tend to do.

I don't believe I could ever see myself fabricating allegations to attempt to obtain custody, much less resorting to kidnapping. However, with the type of thoughts I've already entertained, I have to wonder though how much worse it might have been if my husband and I actually had custody of our precious grandbabies we love so much, only to lose it. No one ever truely knows what they're capable of until they're actually in the situation, and the fact is that almost everything I've ever said I would NEVER do, I've done.

So I feel I can understand what the Maples did and why. I can even empathize with the pain and frustration they must have felt. I even possibly believe that in their minds, they may even have convinced themselves of the truth of their allegations of sexual abuse to enable themselves to rationalize their actions.

I fully believe the Maples had their reasons--but so does everyone else! Every person who has ever broken the law or done anything wrong has their reasons. No one wants to see themselves as "the bad guy" and that's easy enough to avoid and absolve themselves of guilt by simply "villianizing their victim," and projecting the blame for their actions onto them instead. After all, it's OK to do bad things to an "evil villian." Right?

No, actually, it's not. This type of reasoning does not constitute a justifiable excuse, much less a "get out of jail free" card. Almost everyone who lies, steals, murders, cheats, or commits just about any crime or evil act can, and often does, rationalize their actions by convincing themselves that their victim drove them to it, and it's all their victim's fault.

This is the very reason our society has established laws and the corresponding court systems to regulate these laws and render decisions regarding the consequences for violations. The alternative would be chaos.

I'm sorry, but if you honestly believe that Marvin Maple will not be convicted and spend the rest of his life in jail, well, I believe that's only just what you think.

By: Nellie on 3/7/09
jvschicago - well said! You have given an excellent explanation of the vital difference between having overwhelming feelings of love for one's grandchildren, experiencing the urge which many grandparents have, to keep the grandchildren they adore - and actually succumbing to that urge by stealing the children from their parents.
We may not like the established laws of the land, especially when they prevent us doing something we wish. And it is perhaps human nature to rationalize, to blame anyone other than ourselves in an attempt to excuse our own misdeeds. But laws exist to protect society - and the most vulnerable in that society.
It's not only no use Marvin Maple trying to shift his culpability for the crime of kidnapping by "villainizing" the Baskins - it is also an added cruelty to the children he professes to love. Whether he likes it or not, and whatever he and his wife did over the years to make the children forget their own parents, those children are still the offspring of their parents.
I have seen the consequences for such children resulting from hearing constant villification of their parents. They come to see themselves as flawed individuals who will almost certainly turn out the same as their "bad" mother and father. After all, they come from the same gene pool!
Crazy thinking? Of course it is - for those of us who have not experienced such brainwashing. There can be no justification for what the Maples did to their own daughter, son-in-law and grandchildren. He should face up to his wrongdoing like a man.

By: jvschicago on 3/7/09
Gee Nellie, thank you. I've noticed you've been responding to several of my posts, seem to be "on the same page" in regards to this horrific tragedy.

During Bobby White's murder trial, I debated the case on the Court TV's website, and was absolutely shocked by the number of posters proclaiming his "innocence". This was dispite the fact the murder was videotaped, and broadcast on Court TV, live, during the trial! I watched that videotape as Bobby White walked right up to the cash register while his son-in-law was working, and calmly shot him in the stomach, and then walked up to him as he lay dying on the floor, to shoot him again, point-blank in the head. Even AFTER watching this, those same people continued insisting on his innocence!

Yeah, I guess some people can make-up allegations of sexual abuse to rationalize pretty much anything! In White's testimony, he claimed he became suspicious of his son-in-law's behavior when he witnessed him following his grandson into the bathroom to pee. Well, as the mother then explained, her husband had done so because the child was only 4 years old, had been missing the bowl and spraying on the floor! The rest of his testimony was just as ridiculous. Interestingly enough, White never told anyone about this supposed sexual abuse of his grandson until shortly before his trial--almost a full year after he committed the murder!

The Maples also came up with the same type of supposed allegations--right before the Baskins were planning on taking their children home. What a coincidence, huh?

Alleging sexual abuse in custody disputes is so prevelant now, it's actually regarded as a syndrome--"SAID syndrome" or "sexual abuse in divorce syndrome". Far too often, it's nothing more than a hideous method used to gain "leverage" in a custody dispute--essentially a terrorist tactic.


I can understand it may take some time for the Baskin children to even begin to gain some acceptance of any of this, and honestly hope that they will consider doing a little reading on SAID syndrome, along with Bobby White and other similar cases involving these types of allegations made in custody disputes.

By: Nellie on 3/8/09
jvschicago, thanks for your response. I couldn't agree more - false allegations of sexual/satanic abuse as a means of gaining custody of children are used far too frequently in such disputes. And the misery which this brings to the hapless children caught up in such vendettas is something I witnessed all too frequently - both when I was still teaching and when my husband and I were foster carers.
Although retired from both vocations now, I remain concerned that children are still being used as pawns by unscrupulous adults. And it is with a mixture of alarm, incredulity and disgust that I witness the blind stupidity and sheer arrogance which the defenders of the Maples are displaying, in their support for these odious kidnappers.
Your description of the Bobby White murder trial amply demonstrates the sick idiocy of people who refuse to see that which is right before their eyes. I don't know much about the law in Tennessee, but I hope that the court will recognize the wickedness of the Maples' crime - and that it will not allow itself to be bamboozled by pleas of 'necessity defense' and old age as mitigating factors when considering sentencing.
They say that time is a great healer. I share your hope that the Baskin children will come to understand that they and their mother and father were the innocent victims of SAID syndrome and that their parents never harmed them.