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By: truthseeker1 on 8/25/09
Mr. Gordon says he wouldn't vote for the bill if it came up today, but in fact, he voted on July 31 for H.R. 3200, a bill all three committees voted on. If he voted for a bill less than a month ago, how can Mr. Gordon now say that he wouldn't vote for it?
Perhaps voting for bills before voting against them is in his nature because Mr. Gordon switched his vote on a crucial amendment on abortion after the liberal chairman of the committee asked for a revote. The amendment that had passed an hour the revote would have prohibited the federal government from mandating that any health insurance plan provide coverage for abortion (except in cases involving a danger to the mother's life, rape, or incest).
Mr. Gordon says one thing in his district and does a completely different thing in Washington.
Mr. Gordon says he wouldn't vote for the bill if it came up today, but in fact, he voted on July 31 for H.R. 3200, a bill all three committees voted on. If he voted for a bill less than a month ago, how can Mr. Gordon now say that he wouldn't vote for it?
Perhaps voting for bills before voting against them is in his nature because Mr. Gordon switched his vote on a crucial amendment on abortion after the liberal chairman of the committee asked for a revote. The amendment that had passed an hour the revote would have prohibited the federal government from mandating that any health insurance plan provide coverage for abortion (except in cases involving a danger to the mother's life, rape, or incest).
Mr. Gordon says one thing in his district and does a completely different thing in Washington.
By: Geana on 8/25/09
You guys are very confusing. On the one hand you don't want the government to control the states' and the people' in the health insurance/care arena. On the other hand you want to see laws passed giving the government control. I say make up your minds.
You guys are very confusing. On the one hand you don't want the government to control the states' and the people' in the health insurance/care arena. On the other hand you want to see laws passed giving the government control. I say make up your minds.
By: Justus on 8/25/09
We pay for courts even though we may never need them personally. We pay for schools even though we may have not school-age children. We pay for highways even though we may not drive. We pay for fire protection even though we may never have a fire. We pay for all this even though we personally may never need them, because they provide services that improve our nation and our communities and the cost of not having them is absurd. Health care is just one more example of a public service that is too expensive to be without.
We pay for courts even though we may never need them personally. We pay for schools even though we may have not school-age children. We pay for highways even though we may not drive. We pay for fire protection even though we may never have a fire. We pay for all this even though we personally may never need them, because they provide services that improve our nation and our communities and the cost of not having them is absurd. Health care is just one more example of a public service that is too expensive to be without.
By: Geana on 8/25/09
And that, Justus, IS the truth.
And that, Justus, IS the truth.
By: mesam57 on 8/25/09
Someone needs top ask the congressman why Social Security is not good enough for our Elected officials in Washington. Why have they voted themselves lifetime pay for part time service?
Maybe if they had to rely on Social Security and the same Government Health reform these things would get fixed!!!!!
Someone needs top ask the congressman why Social Security is not good enough for our Elected officials in Washington. Why have they voted themselves lifetime pay for part time service?
Maybe if they had to rely on Social Security and the same Government Health reform these things would get fixed!!!!!
By: life_is_short on 8/25/09
truthseeker1 - i didn't think HR3200 has ever been voted on. can you please provide the link that says otherwise?
truthseeker1 - i didn't think HR3200 has ever been voted on. can you please provide the link that says otherwise?
By: life_is_short on 8/25/09
one more question.....to everyone speaking out so strongly in one way or another about this bill.....have you ever actually read any of the text? lots of opinions, but very little evidence coming from anyone.
i'm kind of surprised anyone looks at the job of congress as "part time". if you ask me, there isn't enough money in the world to make me deal with what they deal with. everyone playing monday morning quarterback, but nobody stepping up when the play needs to be called.
one more question.....to everyone speaking out so strongly in one way or another about this bill.....have you ever actually read any of the text? lots of opinions, but very little evidence coming from anyone.
i'm kind of surprised anyone looks at the job of congress as "part time". if you ask me, there isn't enough money in the world to make me deal with what they deal with. everyone playing monday morning quarterback, but nobody stepping up when the play needs to be called.
By: Geana on 8/25/09
mesam57:
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/uscongress/a/congresspay.htm
Benefits Paid to Members of Congress
You may have read that Members of Congress do not pay into Social Security. Well, that's a myth.
mesam57:
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/uscongress/a/congresspay.htm
Benefits Paid to Members of Congress
You may have read that Members of Congress do not pay into Social Security. Well, that's a myth.
By: Alaskadave on 8/25/09
I do not need to read the bill to understand that I do not want more government control of our lives. The Federal Government should not be involved in public education, this is a local issue, The local courts are supported by local dollars. the Federal Courts are funded by Federal Dollars, as they should be. Fire protection is largely a local issue, again the Federal Government has no right to be in that arena, same goes for the local police.
Hey Justus, We have a Constitution, have you ever taken the time to read it?
Geana,
You never let us down, were you the wining lady without a job begging for us to pick up your slack last night?
I do not need to read the bill to understand that I do not want more government control of our lives. The Federal Government should not be involved in public education, this is a local issue, The local courts are supported by local dollars. the Federal Courts are funded by Federal Dollars, as they should be. Fire protection is largely a local issue, again the Federal Government has no right to be in that arena, same goes for the local police.
Hey Justus, We have a Constitution, have you ever taken the time to read it?
Geana,
You never let us down, were you the wining lady without a job begging for us to pick up your slack last night?
By: life_is_short on 8/25/09
Really Alaskadave? How can you have an informed opinion if you are not informed? And what is your point here anyway?
Really Alaskadave? How can you have an informed opinion if you are not informed? And what is your point here anyway?
By: Justus on 8/25/09
Alaskadave, I have read the US and Tennessee Constitutions. Why do you ask? Do you want to borrow my copies? Oh, wait, you probably don't need a copy, because you don't have to read something to judge it. You are very special.
Alaskadave, I have read the US and Tennessee Constitutions. Why do you ask? Do you want to borrow my copies? Oh, wait, you probably don't need a copy, because you don't have to read something to judge it. You are very special.
By: Alaskadave on 8/25/09
Life Is Short:
My point is that Socialism is a creeping disease and this government seizure of healthcare is just that, Socialism. That is something I know I do not want.
Justus:
If you know the US Constitution then this might sound familiar to you
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
That is called the 10th Amendment.
No where in the Constitution do I see a right to healthcare.
Am I mistaken?
Just for thought:
How can we have a bill (HR3200) that is over 1000 pages long and the US Constitution is takes up no more than 20 printed pages?
Are you smart enough to reason that there may be a problem with that?
Life Is Short:
My point is that Socialism is a creeping disease and this government seizure of healthcare is just that, Socialism. That is something I know I do not want.
Justus:
If you know the US Constitution then this might sound familiar to you
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
That is called the 10th Amendment.
No where in the Constitution do I see a right to healthcare.
Am I mistaken?
Just for thought:
How can we have a bill (HR3200) that is over 1000 pages long and the US Constitution is takes up no more than 20 printed pages?
Are you smart enough to reason that there may be a problem with that?
By: Geana on 8/25/09
Sorry, Dave. I do so hate the thought of bursting your bubble, so I'll just leave you to your vivid imagination.
So tell us Dave, after having your employees wait in line for your tickets, did you actually get to ask your question? Did you get to heckle him? Enlighten us ;)
Sorry, Dave. I do so hate the thought of bursting your bubble, so I'll just leave you to your vivid imagination.
So tell us Dave, after having your employees wait in line for your tickets, did you actually get to ask your question? Did you get to heckle him? Enlighten us ;)
By: Justus on 8/25/09
Alaska Dave, who said anything about a right to health care? I said it is a public service that we cannot afford to do without. The 10th Amendment pertains to powers, not rights anyway. So how in the world did you get from a public service to a power reserved to a right not granted?
And what's with the page count? Are you saying that no bill can be longer than the Constitution? Where does it say that in the Constitution?
Alright, I get it now. You're pulling our cyber legs. You were just joking. That is funny. You had me actually believing you were serious. I mean why would anyone offer such disconnected arguments if they weren't joking?
Alaska Dave, who said anything about a right to health care? I said it is a public service that we cannot afford to do without. The 10th Amendment pertains to powers, not rights anyway. So how in the world did you get from a public service to a power reserved to a right not granted?
And what's with the page count? Are you saying that no bill can be longer than the Constitution? Where does it say that in the Constitution?
Alright, I get it now. You're pulling our cyber legs. You were just joking. That is funny. You had me actually believing you were serious. I mean why would anyone offer such disconnected arguments if they weren't joking?
By: Justus on 8/25/09
It can't be tunnel vision, unless it is a very strangely shaped tunnel. He's not serious. He's just having fun with us.
It can't be tunnel vision, unless it is a very strangely shaped tunnel. He's not serious. He's just having fun with us.
By: barrettbear on 8/25/09
Bart is fantastic and I am proud of what he does.
Bart is fantastic and I am proud of what he does.
By: Alaskadave on 8/25/09
All of you have failed to answer the question.
Where does the Federal Government derive the power to mandate Healthcare for everyone?
And yes Geana, I did have my employees there to get tickets. I pay them to do what I ask them to do. If they do not want to do it they can find another job. I also provide them medical insurance through BCBS and I pay them enough to live comfortable lives. America is great! At least for those of us industrious enough to take advantage of the unique opportunities that have been presented to us. I did not speak at the event and I did raise my voice in opposition to the Congressman's positions when warranted (if you were there you may have noticed I was not alone). I am sure you saw me there as I told you exactly how to find me in the crowd. I was also at the Town Hall with Senator Bob Corker today in Woodbury. It was a much more civil meeting, especially since the Acorn and SEIU folks didn't bother to come to Woodbury, I guess they just figured it was a bunch of old folks who don't matter much to them or the democrats anyway.
If either of you (Justus, Geana and Life) were at the meeting last night maybe you can explain why 40 or so supporters of Bart Gordon suddenly left in unison at exactly 8:30 PM. Did Acorn and the SEIU not approve of overtime pay?
All of you have failed to answer the question.
Where does the Federal Government derive the power to mandate Healthcare for everyone?
And yes Geana, I did have my employees there to get tickets. I pay them to do what I ask them to do. If they do not want to do it they can find another job. I also provide them medical insurance through BCBS and I pay them enough to live comfortable lives. America is great! At least for those of us industrious enough to take advantage of the unique opportunities that have been presented to us. I did not speak at the event and I did raise my voice in opposition to the Congressman's positions when warranted (if you were there you may have noticed I was not alone). I am sure you saw me there as I told you exactly how to find me in the crowd. I was also at the Town Hall with Senator Bob Corker today in Woodbury. It was a much more civil meeting, especially since the Acorn and SEIU folks didn't bother to come to Woodbury, I guess they just figured it was a bunch of old folks who don't matter much to them or the democrats anyway.
If either of you (Justus, Geana and Life) were at the meeting last night maybe you can explain why 40 or so supporters of Bart Gordon suddenly left in unison at exactly 8:30 PM. Did Acorn and the SEIU not approve of overtime pay?
By: Justus on 8/25/09
You have failed to address the issue: the public service issue.
As to your question, I point you to the Constitution. The Congress has the constitutional authority to legislate for the general welfare of the people where the states have failed to act.
And if the federal government cannot act on health care, I guess it can't act on other national issues, like roads, food, education and more. Would you agree with that?
You have failed to address the issue: the public service issue.
As to your question, I point you to the Constitution. The Congress has the constitutional authority to legislate for the general welfare of the people where the states have failed to act.
And if the federal government cannot act on health care, I guess it can't act on other national issues, like roads, food, education and more. Would you agree with that?
By: Alaskadave on 8/25/09
In regards to the general welfare clause under Article 1 Section 8, it actually states, "...The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;..."
It states specifically the Welfare of the United States. not the people.
James Madison, The principal author of the Constitution of The United States had this to say about this clause:
"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare,
and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare,
they may take the care of religion into their own hands;
they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish
and pay them out of their public treasury;
they may take into their own hands the education of children,
establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union;
they may assume the provision of the poor;
they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads;
in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation
down to the most minute object of police,
would be thrown under the power of Congress.... Were the power
of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for,
it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature
of the limited Government established by the people of America."
One must always remember that the Constitution was written for our government, and therefore the “general welfare” it refers to is that of the government itself, not of individual citizens. The Founders of this nation never intended for the Government to become an instrument of wealth redistribution, and the fact that our government serves this role today shows how far we have strayed from the object and design of the Constitution.
In regards to the general welfare clause under Article 1 Section 8, it actually states, "...The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;..."
It states specifically the Welfare of the United States. not the people.
James Madison, The principal author of the Constitution of The United States had this to say about this clause:
"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare,
and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare,
they may take the care of religion into their own hands;
they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish
and pay them out of their public treasury;
they may take into their own hands the education of children,
establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union;
they may assume the provision of the poor;
they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads;
in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation
down to the most minute object of police,
would be thrown under the power of Congress.... Were the power
of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for,
it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature
of the limited Government established by the people of America."
One must always remember that the Constitution was written for our government, and therefore the “general welfare” it refers to is that of the government itself, not of individual citizens. The Founders of this nation never intended for the Government to become an instrument of wealth redistribution, and the fact that our government serves this role today shows how far we have strayed from the object and design of the Constitution.
By: truthseeker1 on 8/25/09
Life is short: H.R. 3200 has not been voted on on the House floor. It has, however, been voted on in three committees: House Ways and Means, House Education and Labor and House Energy and Commerce. Mr. Gordon is a member of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, which has a press release about the "historic" passage right here: http://energycommerce.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1723:energy-and-commerce-committee-passes-historic-health-care-reform-legislation&catid=122:media-advisories&Itemid=55
The front page of the Ways and Means Committee Web site says this about H.R. 3200:
"The three committees, which have been working together on health insurance reform, have now each approved health care legislation. H.R. 3200 is expected to be considered by the full House in September."
Source: http://waysandmeans.house.gov/
So yes, H.R. 3200 has been voted on by the three committees, just as I said in my earlier post, and Mr. Gordon voted yes on the final passage of the bill in the Energy and Commerce Committee.
Life is short: H.R. 3200 has not been voted on on the House floor. It has, however, been voted on in three committees: House Ways and Means, House Education and Labor and House Energy and Commerce. Mr. Gordon is a member of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, which has a press release about the "historic" passage right here: http://energycommerce.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1723:energy-and-commerce-committee-passes-historic-health-care-reform-legislation&catid=122:media-advisories&Itemid=55
The front page of the Ways and Means Committee Web site says this about H.R. 3200:
"The three committees, which have been working together on health insurance reform, have now each approved health care legislation. H.R. 3200 is expected to be considered by the full House in September."
Source: http://waysandmeans.house.gov/
So yes, H.R. 3200 has been voted on by the three committees, just as I said in my earlier post, and Mr. Gordon voted yes on the final passage of the bill in the Energy and Commerce Committee.
By: LuckyDog on 8/25/09
Barrettbear:
I used to have a generally positive opinion of Bart. That changed at the Town Hall Meeting.
I realize that it’s unlikely that I will see eye-to-eye with my elected representative on every topic. I’ll make my arguments and others can make theirs, and my position may not always prevail. I can handle that. What I won't tolerate though is lack of integrity. If a politician cheats, steals, lies, etc., I’ve had enough of him and it’s time to send him packing.
In my opinion, Bart crossed the line on Monday evening at the town hall meeting. He continually misrepresented the effect that the proposed house bill will have on abortion. He argued repeatedly that the proposed house bill will not allow public funds to be used to pay for abortions, continually citing the Hyde Amendment. This is not true, and Bart is well aware of it. (For more information see: http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/abortion-which-side-is-fabricating). He knew what he was saying was wrong, but he just kept repeating the same lies over and over. Why? Because he knows that polls show that approximately 75% of all citizens oppose the use of public money to pay for abortion, yet he chose to vote for public funding of abortions.
So, if Gordon wants to vote with the liberal majority in his party to use public funds for abortion, so be it. I would disagree with his position, but I would still be able to respect him. However, I won’t put up with politicians who aren’t honest, and I’ll do my part in the next election cycle to send him packing.
Barrettbear:
I used to have a generally positive opinion of Bart. That changed at the Town Hall Meeting.
I realize that it’s unlikely that I will see eye-to-eye with my elected representative on every topic. I’ll make my arguments and others can make theirs, and my position may not always prevail. I can handle that. What I won't tolerate though is lack of integrity. If a politician cheats, steals, lies, etc., I’ve had enough of him and it’s time to send him packing.
In my opinion, Bart crossed the line on Monday evening at the town hall meeting. He continually misrepresented the effect that the proposed house bill will have on abortion. He argued repeatedly that the proposed house bill will not allow public funds to be used to pay for abortions, continually citing the Hyde Amendment. This is not true, and Bart is well aware of it. (For more information see: http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/abortion-which-side-is-fabricating). He knew what he was saying was wrong, but he just kept repeating the same lies over and over. Why? Because he knows that polls show that approximately 75% of all citizens oppose the use of public money to pay for abortion, yet he chose to vote for public funding of abortions.
So, if Gordon wants to vote with the liberal majority in his party to use public funds for abortion, so be it. I would disagree with his position, but I would still be able to respect him. However, I won’t put up with politicians who aren’t honest, and I’ll do my part in the next election cycle to send him packing.
By: Geana on 8/25/09
.... to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States ....
"It states specifically the Welfare of the United States. not the people."
Preamble: We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Are you saying the words "We the People" is a misnomer? If not for the people -- the citizens who make up the United States -- then what is the United States?
Welfare
welfare n. 1. HEALTH, happiness, or prosperity; well-being
You're free to interpret the Constitution any which you like, in the same manner others are free to and will interpret the Bible in any which way they like.
.... to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States ....
"It states specifically the Welfare of the United States. not the people."
Preamble: We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Are you saying the words "We the People" is a misnomer? If not for the people -- the citizens who make up the United States -- then what is the United States?
Welfare
welfare n. 1. HEALTH, happiness, or prosperity; well-being
You're free to interpret the Constitution any which you like, in the same manner others are free to and will interpret the Bible in any which way they like.
By: Alaskadave on 8/25/09
Geana,
I do not even know how to respond to someone that takes the Preamble of the Constitution, which is essentially a declaration of God given freedoms and relates it to Article I Section 8.
Since you like definitions why don't you research the definition of Welfare as it was used when the Constitution was written. You will find that it had a much different meaning then it does today.
I wonder why you want me to pay for something that is an individual responsibility?
Is no one responsible for themselves? Are we all owed something?
Where do you suppose the money will come from to support this Socialist dream you have?
Geana,
I do not even know how to respond to someone that takes the Preamble of the Constitution, which is essentially a declaration of God given freedoms and relates it to Article I Section 8.
Since you like definitions why don't you research the definition of Welfare as it was used when the Constitution was written. You will find that it had a much different meaning then it does today.
I wonder why you want me to pay for something that is an individual responsibility?
Is no one responsible for themselves? Are we all owed something?
Where do you suppose the money will come from to support this Socialist dream you have?
By: Alaskadave on 8/25/09
Additionally,
In the Federalists Papers Essay #45 James Madison (again the principal author of the Constitution) wrote in 1788:
“The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part; be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people; and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.
The operations of the federal government will be most extensive and important in times of war and danger, those of the State governments in times of peace and security.”
How can you even debate the intention of what is written?
This is kind of like Bill Clinton's definition of "is"
Really, is this that hard to understand?
I learned most of this in ROTC and in the military.
Additionally,
In the Federalists Papers Essay #45 James Madison (again the principal author of the Constitution) wrote in 1788:
“The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part; be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people; and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.
The operations of the federal government will be most extensive and important in times of war and danger, those of the State governments in times of peace and security.”
How can you even debate the intention of what is written?
This is kind of like Bill Clinton's definition of "is"
Really, is this that hard to understand?
I learned most of this in ROTC and in the military.
By: Alaskadave on 8/26/09
Thomas Jefferson commented on Article 1 Section 8 in the year 1817 and said the following:
"Our tenet ever was…that Congress had not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but were restrained to those specifically enumerated, and that, as it was never meant that they should provide for that welfare but by the exercise of the enumerated powers, so it could not have been meant they should raise money for purposes which the enumeration did not place under their action; consequently, that the specification of powers is a limitation of the purposes for which they may raise money."
Do you understand the definition of enumerated power?
Is it getting any clearer for you?
Thomas Jefferson commented on Article 1 Section 8 in the year 1817 and said the following:
"Our tenet ever was…that Congress had not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but were restrained to those specifically enumerated, and that, as it was never meant that they should provide for that welfare but by the exercise of the enumerated powers, so it could not have been meant they should raise money for purposes which the enumeration did not place under their action; consequently, that the specification of powers is a limitation of the purposes for which they may raise money."
Do you understand the definition of enumerated power?
Is it getting any clearer for you?
By: life_is_short on 8/26/09
Alaskadave, you need to read more about the history of the constitution. You also need to read more of the constitution. Read the 9th and 14th amendments. "The Ninth Amendment bars denial of unenumerated rights if the denial is based on the enumeration of certain rights in the Constitution, but does not bar denial of unenumerated rights if the denial is based on the enumeration of certain powers in the Constitution. It is to that enumeration of powers that the courts have said we must look, in order to determine the extent of the unenumerated rights mentioned in the Ninth Amendment."
The Constitution of the United States is a living, breathing document. Unless you are a contsitutionalist and believe that only the original rights powers outlined in the constitution apply, your argument makes no sense. If you are a constitutionalist, then clearly, that is your right. But you can't make your arguments based on the cafeteria plan. Picking and choosing what you want to agree with. It's much like people that quote the bible to make an argument about something they disagree with. If you are not practicing the entire bible, do not tell me what parts to believe and not believe.
Alaskadave, you need to read more about the history of the constitution. You also need to read more of the constitution. Read the 9th and 14th amendments. "The Ninth Amendment bars denial of unenumerated rights if the denial is based on the enumeration of certain rights in the Constitution, but does not bar denial of unenumerated rights if the denial is based on the enumeration of certain powers in the Constitution. It is to that enumeration of powers that the courts have said we must look, in order to determine the extent of the unenumerated rights mentioned in the Ninth Amendment."
The Constitution of the United States is a living, breathing document. Unless you are a contsitutionalist and believe that only the original rights powers outlined in the constitution apply, your argument makes no sense. If you are a constitutionalist, then clearly, that is your right. But you can't make your arguments based on the cafeteria plan. Picking and choosing what you want to agree with. It's much like people that quote the bible to make an argument about something they disagree with. If you are not practicing the entire bible, do not tell me what parts to believe and not believe.
By: Geana on 8/26/09
Then don't argue it, Dave, plain and simple.
The definitiion is not a much different meaning as you put it, but contains "two" meanings. The second of which identifies and names our welfare system today.
You cannot logically use the separate meanings of the word welfare to define the words general welfare in relation to the power of the government as construed to encompass the meaning of it in relation to the people. You cannot logically define the Constitution as not being "for the people."
While you're out giving everyone history lessons on the Constitution to define your points, why not look into the history of welfare instead?
"I wonder why you want me to pay for something that is an individual responsibility?
We BOTH already do in the form of taxes. Does it occur to you that millions are set aside in TANF to supplement rising unemployment? Does it occur to you that the overall child support system is connected to TANF to ensure that able-parents take financial responsibility for their own children, to prevent the entitlement kings and queens from double-dipping?
Don't knock the welfare system, as someday you might need it.
"Is no one responsible for themselves?"
We ALL are, though a handful feel they are entitlement kings and queens, the majority of take responsibility for ourselves.
"Are we all owed something?"
From the government, in control of our taxes, etc.? Most certainly, YES.
"Where do you suppose the money will come from to support this Socialist dream you have?"
From the same means you suppose it will come from.
Then don't argue it, Dave, plain and simple.
The definitiion is not a much different meaning as you put it, but contains "two" meanings. The second of which identifies and names our welfare system today.
You cannot logically use the separate meanings of the word welfare to define the words general welfare in relation to the power of the government as construed to encompass the meaning of it in relation to the people. You cannot logically define the Constitution as not being "for the people."
While you're out giving everyone history lessons on the Constitution to define your points, why not look into the history of welfare instead?
"I wonder why you want me to pay for something that is an individual responsibility?
We BOTH already do in the form of taxes. Does it occur to you that millions are set aside in TANF to supplement rising unemployment? Does it occur to you that the overall child support system is connected to TANF to ensure that able-parents take financial responsibility for their own children, to prevent the entitlement kings and queens from double-dipping?
Don't knock the welfare system, as someday you might need it.
"Is no one responsible for themselves?"
We ALL are, though a handful feel they are entitlement kings and queens, the majority of take responsibility for ourselves.
"Are we all owed something?"
From the government, in control of our taxes, etc.? Most certainly, YES.
"Where do you suppose the money will come from to support this Socialist dream you have?"
From the same means you suppose it will come from.
By: Alaskadave on 8/26/09
Wow,
Both of you are way off base and I just threw you out. I am a Constitutionalist. There was a reason it was written, and every line has a specific meaning. The meaning sometimes gets lost in the translation today as the definitions of words changed over time, but the original intent is still there. I proffered several examples from the individuals who wrote the Constitution that clarified what the intentions were and neither of you were able to combat those quotes with facts. We do have a way to change the Constitution. It is called a Constitutional Amendment. This makes it your oh so precious living document that the progressives want. The problem is that it requires two thirds majority in the houses of the Legislature and three quarters of the States approval to be ratified. The progressive agenda would never make it through this process because the majority of Americans oppose their radical ideals thus we have legislative actions through a mostly un-elected judiciary trying to change Constitutional law.
If you really want a continually changing constitution you can move to a number of other countries around the World that have that. It sucks. I have travelled to over 35 Countries and can tell you first hand the horrors of a government with unchecked powers. Nevermind what happens in a Country when the government confiscates over 50% of the wealth of a nation?
Wow,
Both of you are way off base and I just threw you out. I am a Constitutionalist. There was a reason it was written, and every line has a specific meaning. The meaning sometimes gets lost in the translation today as the definitions of words changed over time, but the original intent is still there. I proffered several examples from the individuals who wrote the Constitution that clarified what the intentions were and neither of you were able to combat those quotes with facts. We do have a way to change the Constitution. It is called a Constitutional Amendment. This makes it your oh so precious living document that the progressives want. The problem is that it requires two thirds majority in the houses of the Legislature and three quarters of the States approval to be ratified. The progressive agenda would never make it through this process because the majority of Americans oppose their radical ideals thus we have legislative actions through a mostly un-elected judiciary trying to change Constitutional law.
If you really want a continually changing constitution you can move to a number of other countries around the World that have that. It sucks. I have travelled to over 35 Countries and can tell you first hand the horrors of a government with unchecked powers. Nevermind what happens in a Country when the government confiscates over 50% of the wealth of a nation?
By: Justus on 8/26/09
Well, if that is the way you see the world, more power to you. Enjoy.
Well, if that is the way you see the world, more power to you. Enjoy.
By: Alaskadave on 8/26/09
Not power for me Justus.
I want to see us adhere to the values of a virtuous society. One that respects the value of the individual and respects the fruits of our labor. Those dollars that the Government takes from me represents my labor and time. Labor and Time both have finite availability in my life. To force me to surrender those in the form of oppressive taxes to support other people who are unwilling to sacrifice their own labor and time is crazy. You may want to do it and no one is keeping you from doing it. Donate all of your time and labor to the Shriners or any hundreds of free clinics and hospitals around the country, but do not force me to participate as well. When that happens it is called Socialism, and this is something our Founding Fathers would not have supported 230 years ago or today.
In short my power is this.
I am pledging my Time and Labor, in the form of dollars and sweat to defeat the traitors who sit in our Legislatures, State and Federal, Republican and Democrat.
I am going to start by knocking on every door in my neighborhood and explaining who Bart Gordon is and why he must be defeated in 2010. I will continue this campaign and will work to enlist like minded individuals to do the same.
This is just the beginning. For most of my life I have been fairly passive in the affairs of our government. Not any longer.
Got to run.
Bart Gordon Town Hall is in Gallatin tonight.
Not power for me Justus.
I want to see us adhere to the values of a virtuous society. One that respects the value of the individual and respects the fruits of our labor. Those dollars that the Government takes from me represents my labor and time. Labor and Time both have finite availability in my life. To force me to surrender those in the form of oppressive taxes to support other people who are unwilling to sacrifice their own labor and time is crazy. You may want to do it and no one is keeping you from doing it. Donate all of your time and labor to the Shriners or any hundreds of free clinics and hospitals around the country, but do not force me to participate as well. When that happens it is called Socialism, and this is something our Founding Fathers would not have supported 230 years ago or today.
In short my power is this.
I am pledging my Time and Labor, in the form of dollars and sweat to defeat the traitors who sit in our Legislatures, State and Federal, Republican and Democrat.
I am going to start by knocking on every door in my neighborhood and explaining who Bart Gordon is and why he must be defeated in 2010. I will continue this campaign and will work to enlist like minded individuals to do the same.
This is just the beginning. For most of my life I have been fairly passive in the affairs of our government. Not any longer.
Got to run.
Bart Gordon Town Hall is in Gallatin tonight.
By: Geana on 8/26/09
Right, you proffered examples from the individuals who clarified the intention of the meaning of words general welfare "only" within the Constitution.
"We do have a way to change the Constitution. It is called a Constitutional Amendment.... it requires two thirds majority in the houses of the Legislature and three quarters of the States approval to be ratified."
Noooooo! Really? Duh.
I invite you once again, to step outside the box of your militant mindset and research instead, welfare history. There are many people who are unaware of the different timeline in history which established the groundwork for health and welfare assistance.
e.g. "Congress established the Bureau of Refugees, Freedman, and Abandoned Lands in March 1865 in the War Department. Commonly known as the Freedman's Bureau, this organization served emancipated African Americans and refugee Whites by alleviating suffering and acting as legal guardian. For example, the Bureau issued 21 million rations, approximately 5 million going to Whites and 15 million to Blacks. By 1867, there were 46 hospitals under the bureau staffed by physicians, surgeons, and nurses. The medical department spent over $2 million to improve the health of former slaves and treated more than 450,000 cases of illness."
Well, Dave, it's been both amusing and entertaining, but I've got real work to do.
Right, you proffered examples from the individuals who clarified the intention of the meaning of words general welfare "only" within the Constitution.
"We do have a way to change the Constitution. It is called a Constitutional Amendment.... it requires two thirds majority in the houses of the Legislature and three quarters of the States approval to be ratified."
Noooooo! Really? Duh.
I invite you once again, to step outside the box of your militant mindset and research instead, welfare history. There are many people who are unaware of the different timeline in history which established the groundwork for health and welfare assistance.
e.g. "Congress established the Bureau of Refugees, Freedman, and Abandoned Lands in March 1865 in the War Department. Commonly known as the Freedman's Bureau, this organization served emancipated African Americans and refugee Whites by alleviating suffering and acting as legal guardian. For example, the Bureau issued 21 million rations, approximately 5 million going to Whites and 15 million to Blacks. By 1867, there were 46 hospitals under the bureau staffed by physicians, surgeons, and nurses. The medical department spent over $2 million to improve the health of former slaves and treated more than 450,000 cases of illness."
Well, Dave, it's been both amusing and entertaining, but I've got real work to do.
By: Wil2hike on 8/26/09
WHY is no one questioning the COST of health care? Has anyone ever examined the bills of hospitals and doctors and other providers? We're talking, in theory about "Nationalizing" the way we PAY for the service but not how much we are charged for those services
WHY is no one questioning the COST of health care? Has anyone ever examined the bills of hospitals and doctors and other providers? We're talking, in theory about "Nationalizing" the way we PAY for the service but not how much we are charged for those services
By: Justus on 8/26/09
Another story from the ether.
Another story from the ether.
By: Justus on 8/26/09
The reality is you might be from England, you might have had this experience, but more likely you borrowed the story from somewhere on the internet.
The reality is you might be from England, you might have had this experience, but more likely you borrowed the story from somewhere on the internet.
By: Geana on 8/26/09
My first thought, was, "That's terrible," and it is. But as usual, I'm full of questions and thoughts.
Was your aunt overweight at 55? There is no point in hip and joint replacements if the bodyweight is to much to bear. Are you saying every year from the age of 55 to 80 they continued to inform her, "as long as you can get around?"
It can be dangerous for an elderly person to undergo surgery of any type, the risks are enhanced.
"For 18 months this went on until they finally decided they would try to work her into surgery. They operated on her and within 6 days it had prolapsed again. Then she had to wait another 6 months with 6" of bowel hanging from her body, no control still over bodily functions - until they could get her into surgery again."
She was forewarned that the operation may be either risky and possibly even unsuccessful. As with many other surgeries, second or further corrective ones cannot be immediately performed. It does take time for a body to heal.
And finally for her eye, you say she had to go "private." If she could eventually afford to go private for her eye, what took her so long to get out of system she felt did not match the quality of care she wanted?
While I'm not on this state's TennCare plan, my children are. I cannot complain about the quality of care they receive nor the choices we have for doctors. Their primary care physicians and dentists have been excellent.
Prior to being offered coverage through a group plan with my company, I had no coverage for nearly 6 years. During that time I had to access the Rutherford County Clinic, Primary Care Hope Clinic, or one of various walk-in clinics. Both of which I had to pay on a sliding fee scale. Both primarily staffed by RN's. Don't get me wrong, I am grateful those two options were available at all, but if there was a choice for me to pay affordable premiums into an insurance plan that would have given me even the choices of primary care physicans available to my children on the TennCare plan... I would have jumped on it.
As it stands, when TennCare opened up other paying options to insure others besides children and indigent families receiving TNAF, my employer had already offered coverage for their employees. Better late than never. Still I found with my wage scale, I would not have been able to afford family coverage.
Half of my extended family currently resides in England. I have not yet spoken to them regarding their feelings or whether they are in the NHS system you speak of. I may inquire next time I do speak to them.
My first thought, was, "That's terrible," and it is. But as usual, I'm full of questions and thoughts.
Was your aunt overweight at 55? There is no point in hip and joint replacements if the bodyweight is to much to bear. Are you saying every year from the age of 55 to 80 they continued to inform her, "as long as you can get around?"
It can be dangerous for an elderly person to undergo surgery of any type, the risks are enhanced.
"For 18 months this went on until they finally decided they would try to work her into surgery. They operated on her and within 6 days it had prolapsed again. Then she had to wait another 6 months with 6" of bowel hanging from her body, no control still over bodily functions - until they could get her into surgery again."
She was forewarned that the operation may be either risky and possibly even unsuccessful. As with many other surgeries, second or further corrective ones cannot be immediately performed. It does take time for a body to heal.
And finally for her eye, you say she had to go "private." If she could eventually afford to go private for her eye, what took her so long to get out of system she felt did not match the quality of care she wanted?
While I'm not on this state's TennCare plan, my children are. I cannot complain about the quality of care they receive nor the choices we have for doctors. Their primary care physicians and dentists have been excellent.
Prior to being offered coverage through a group plan with my company, I had no coverage for nearly 6 years. During that time I had to access the Rutherford County Clinic, Primary Care Hope Clinic, or one of various walk-in clinics. Both of which I had to pay on a sliding fee scale. Both primarily staffed by RN's. Don't get me wrong, I am grateful those two options were available at all, but if there was a choice for me to pay affordable premiums into an insurance plan that would have given me even the choices of primary care physicans available to my children on the TennCare plan... I would have jumped on it.
As it stands, when TennCare opened up other paying options to insure others besides children and indigent families receiving TNAF, my employer had already offered coverage for their employees. Better late than never. Still I found with my wage scale, I would not have been able to afford family coverage.
Half of my extended family currently resides in England. I have not yet spoken to them regarding their feelings or whether they are in the NHS system you speak of. I may inquire next time I do speak to them.
By: Geana on 8/27/09
Dave, be very, very careful who you accuse of never working an honest job in their lives and accusing people of substance abuse because they do not relate to your views.
Whether you choose use it or not, you've indicated your military record which tells us all you and your immediate family are eligible for VA benefits, plus many more benefits than the average citizen. Yet, you would prefer similar government programs are not available to others? WHO do you think pays for YOUR benefits out of their tax money. WHO paid for your wages, BAH, etc, while you put your life on the line for your country?
Tenncare saved my employed, uninsured, best friend's life from cancer. Tenncare has kept my children healthy. Employed persons as myself "pay premiums" into the Tenncare plan.
I never thought a NHS was free. Nothing in life is free, apparently even nature today, with it's devastating effects costing lives and billions of dollars.
You are on a personal vendetta to get every able-bodied person who milks the system, off the system, and for the most part I'd like to see them off too. As far as illegals go, your efforts would be better spent convincing Americans to take work for minimum wage is not a shame. Only then will employers to stop using the cheap services of illegals to harvest the crops that put food on your table, that lay masonwork to construct your homes and buildings, that sweat behind the counters of food service establishments, and keep your lawns meticulously green. Convince your state officials to get employers to lower the average hiring age back down to 16 from 18, so more teens can find jobs and start to learn responsibility from earlier ages.
There's a lot you can do out there, but huff and puff all you want. You are not going to be able to delegate exactly where you want your taxes to go to. No one can.
Dave, be very, very careful who you accuse of never working an honest job in their lives and accusing people of substance abuse because they do not relate to your views.
Whether you choose use it or not, you've indicated your military record which tells us all you and your immediate family are eligible for VA benefits, plus many more benefits than the average citizen. Yet, you would prefer similar government programs are not available to others? WHO do you think pays for YOUR benefits out of their tax money. WHO paid for your wages, BAH, etc, while you put your life on the line for your country?
Tenncare saved my employed, uninsured, best friend's life from cancer. Tenncare has kept my children healthy. Employed persons as myself "pay premiums" into the Tenncare plan.
I never thought a NHS was free. Nothing in life is free, apparently even nature today, with it's devastating effects costing lives and billions of dollars.
You are on a personal vendetta to get every able-bodied person who milks the system, off the system, and for the most part I'd like to see them off too. As far as illegals go, your efforts would be better spent convincing Americans to take work for minimum wage is not a shame. Only then will employers to stop using the cheap services of illegals to harvest the crops that put food on your table, that lay masonwork to construct your homes and buildings, that sweat behind the counters of food service establishments, and keep your lawns meticulously green. Convince your state officials to get employers to lower the average hiring age back down to 16 from 18, so more teens can find jobs and start to learn responsibility from earlier ages.
There's a lot you can do out there, but huff and puff all you want. You are not going to be able to delegate exactly where you want your taxes to go to. No one can.
By: Alaskadave on 8/27/09
What are we to assume when your children are on TennCare?
Yes, I am a Veteran and I sacrificed years of my life to protect this Country. I volunteered to do it and did it for pay that in private industry would be considered poverty level wages. I was deployed for months...not days months at a time without the benefit of being home with my family or even having contact. Don't preach to me about benefits. I earned whatever benefits I may receive in the future, not I said future, if we have one.
My point here is that we cannot continue to pay for everyone to get everything that they want and desire. It is unfortunate that some find themselves in situations that are tough. I have been there several times in my life as many others have. We find a way out on our own accord and appreciate the experience and lessons learned. Local help from Communities and Church fill the void and neighbors become neighbors. When the Federal Government dictates this no self worth is ever retained or achieved from these life lessons.
Don't get me wrong, I do think that health insurance requires a revamping. I pay what I consider an exorbitant amount for insurance for my employees and I on a monthly basis, this comes directly from our bottom line. I do not however want to see the Federal Government get in the middle. This is an issue that the States should be involved in.
As far as the illegals are concerned we actually agree.
Better yet why don't we petition our State Representatives to at least propose the following law in TN?
If any corporation is found to hire illegal aliens in the State of Tennessee then their business license is revoked immediately for a period of 12 months on the first offense, this would go up for each additional offense. I think this would get the attention of those who violate our laws.
What are we to assume when your children are on TennCare?
Yes, I am a Veteran and I sacrificed years of my life to protect this Country. I volunteered to do it and did it for pay that in private industry would be considered poverty level wages. I was deployed for months...not days months at a time without the benefit of being home with my family or even having contact. Don't preach to me about benefits. I earned whatever benefits I may receive in the future, not I said future, if we have one.
My point here is that we cannot continue to pay for everyone to get everything that they want and desire. It is unfortunate that some find themselves in situations that are tough. I have been there several times in my life as many others have. We find a way out on our own accord and appreciate the experience and lessons learned. Local help from Communities and Church fill the void and neighbors become neighbors. When the Federal Government dictates this no self worth is ever retained or achieved from these life lessons.
Don't get me wrong, I do think that health insurance requires a revamping. I pay what I consider an exorbitant amount for insurance for my employees and I on a monthly basis, this comes directly from our bottom line. I do not however want to see the Federal Government get in the middle. This is an issue that the States should be involved in.
As far as the illegals are concerned we actually agree.
Better yet why don't we petition our State Representatives to at least propose the following law in TN?
If any corporation is found to hire illegal aliens in the State of Tennessee then their business license is revoked immediately for a period of 12 months on the first offense, this would go up for each additional offense. I think this would get the attention of those who violate our laws.
By: Geana on 8/27/09
Dave, the answer is you shouldn't assume. You should know better than most, not to judge people. There are a number of programs in TennCare. Go to TN gov site and you'll see the different ones available.
The reason I had to seek alternate care for my children is because, my non-profit employer did not offer health coverage, "NOT" because I am unemployed or leeching off the system. At one point, I was temporarily laid off. Imagine my surprise when I discovered after visiting unemployment, I was not eligible for benefits because my employer was exempt from paying unemployment apparently due to their non-profit status.
I am not preaching to you about benefits, nor am I knocking your years of service in the military, and yes, you deserve it. I am pointing out that the programs are there for your benefit no matter how you felt about your wage scale. A military career was your choice. A civilian career is my choice, although I did seriously consider military, my hearing disability "disqualified" me at the time. Likewise, all the rest of us who have dutifully paid our taxes throughout the years, should have similar programs, options, and benefits.
Don't get the rest of us wrong, either. In the end whatever solution is arrived at, there will be a government department heading and defining federal laws for all the states to implement in ways they see feel. It's unfortunate to see some states just follow the minimum requirements in education for example, and to see other states go over the max to ensure children get the best education available.
If you want to know more about other's views, you need to be more open-minded to what they say. If you do, you'll find there's a lot more we agree upon than just the one you find so far.
Dave, the answer is you shouldn't assume. You should know better than most, not to judge people. There are a number of programs in TennCare. Go to TN gov site and you'll see the different ones available.
The reason I had to seek alternate care for my children is because, my non-profit employer did not offer health coverage, "NOT" because I am unemployed or leeching off the system. At one point, I was temporarily laid off. Imagine my surprise when I discovered after visiting unemployment, I was not eligible for benefits because my employer was exempt from paying unemployment apparently due to their non-profit status.
I am not preaching to you about benefits, nor am I knocking your years of service in the military, and yes, you deserve it. I am pointing out that the programs are there for your benefit no matter how you felt about your wage scale. A military career was your choice. A civilian career is my choice, although I did seriously consider military, my hearing disability "disqualified" me at the time. Likewise, all the rest of us who have dutifully paid our taxes throughout the years, should have similar programs, options, and benefits.
Don't get the rest of us wrong, either. In the end whatever solution is arrived at, there will be a government department heading and defining federal laws for all the states to implement in ways they see feel. It's unfortunate to see some states just follow the minimum requirements in education for example, and to see other states go over the max to ensure children get the best education available.
If you want to know more about other's views, you need to be more open-minded to what they say. If you do, you'll find there's a lot more we agree upon than just the one you find so far.
By: Geana on 8/27/09
ebbabc...
I'm sorry you felt that way. I said from the onset that your sister's story (I mistakenly said aunt earlier) "was terrible." I did not suggest that you were lying. If you want to have that out with Justus, please feel free, but under no circumstances did I imply you were lying. My reaction was more like, "Wow, unbelievable," not that I didn't believe it, but, "How could they tell a person year after year, as long as they get around."
I did ask questions about her general health and I did bring about a few points regarding the danger of operating on the elderly, and also about the waiting periods between surgeries because my mind was comparing her conditions to two elderly persons I know well. Although both have coverage available to them (one privately, one through the VA), the procedure for the one who needed hip, and knee joint work could not have it done until she the required weight. The other did not have a prolapsed intestine, but severe incontinence. Surgery was available but not guaranteed to work. Many that had that particular surgery, said the relief was short lived.
My thoughts were never on whether or not you were lying.
You must admit you were confusing, when you first said, they later went PRIVATE. That indicated to me that there was a choice to be had between NHS or Private.
I understand why you're here, EBBABC. For the same reason my mother is, for the same reasons my father's parents are. I do have relatives in England and I have spent vacations in Kidderminster near Birmingham. I even smiled inside at AlaskaDave's remark about the "great teeth," as ironically my own British-born cousin made a similar remark to me. At the time she did I was only 20 and simply accepted it as a compliment.
ebbabc...
I'm sorry you felt that way. I said from the onset that your sister's story (I mistakenly said aunt earlier) "was terrible." I did not suggest that you were lying. If you want to have that out with Justus, please feel free, but under no circumstances did I imply you were lying. My reaction was more like, "Wow, unbelievable," not that I didn't believe it, but, "How could they tell a person year after year, as long as they get around."
I did ask questions about her general health and I did bring about a few points regarding the danger of operating on the elderly, and also about the waiting periods between surgeries because my mind was comparing her conditions to two elderly persons I know well. Although both have coverage available to them (one privately, one through the VA), the procedure for the one who needed hip, and knee joint work could not have it done until she the required weight. The other did not have a prolapsed intestine, but severe incontinence. Surgery was available but not guaranteed to work. Many that had that particular surgery, said the relief was short lived.
My thoughts were never on whether or not you were lying.
You must admit you were confusing, when you first said, they later went PRIVATE. That indicated to me that there was a choice to be had between NHS or Private.
I understand why you're here, EBBABC. For the same reason my mother is, for the same reasons my father's parents are. I do have relatives in England and I have spent vacations in Kidderminster near Birmingham. I even smiled inside at AlaskaDave's remark about the "great teeth," as ironically my own British-born cousin made a similar remark to me. At the time she did I was only 20 and simply accepted it as a compliment.
By: Alaskadave on 8/27/09
Geana,
Speaking of teeth...Did you notice that post has been removed?
Has this happened to anyone else?
Geana,
Speaking of teeth...Did you notice that post has been removed?
Has this happened to anyone else?
By: les6216 on 8/27/09
There is no universe where a health insurance system should be as complicated, expensive, and inaccessible to so many. Our community has worked hard to develop effective points of access for the uninsured and low income individuals.However, the insured struggle with high deductibles, even higher premiums, and limits (riders) on necessary coverage. I would like for our elected officials to take a community such as ours, look at what really works (the partnerships between charitable organizations, business, healthcare for the poor), and then work on streamlining private insurance--health insurance reform--to craft a system that is affordable and satisfactory to all. I would love for Rutherford County to be a pilot community for a Federal/State/Private partnership project. True reform is not a "one size fits all" issue.
There is no universe where a health insurance system should be as complicated, expensive, and inaccessible to so many. Our community has worked hard to develop effective points of access for the uninsured and low income individuals.However, the insured struggle with high deductibles, even higher premiums, and limits (riders) on necessary coverage. I would like for our elected officials to take a community such as ours, look at what really works (the partnerships between charitable organizations, business, healthcare for the poor), and then work on streamlining private insurance--health insurance reform--to craft a system that is affordable and satisfactory to all. I would love for Rutherford County to be a pilot community for a Federal/State/Private partnership project. True reform is not a "one size fits all" issue.
By: Alaskadave on 8/27/09
EBBABC:
I heard that quote from Winston Churchill long ago and seeing it again now makes me grin. He was a pretty perceptive man, a little more so than Mr. Chamberlain.
EBBABC:
I heard that quote from Winston Churchill long ago and seeing it again now makes me grin. He was a pretty perceptive man, a little more so than Mr. Chamberlain.
By: Geana on 8/27/09
http://potentialandexpectations.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/this-americans-experience-of-britains-healthcare-system/
I believe this is an excellent, well-written blog/article by an American woman who has lived in and received care in both Britain and the U.S. The feedback is interesting. Everyone has their own stories to tell, as here, some good some, some bad.
Honestly, I DO believe ebbabc's story on her sister's care. I have no reason not to. But I am also interested in what other Brits have to say. I haven't yet been in touch with my own British relatives, but as the writer pointed out, her own story is just another story.
les6216, I'm in complete agreement with you. Truthfully, though, I cannot see Rutherford County volunteering itself as a pilot program. Likewise it would be terrific to see this county put itself on the map by establishing a pilot program that works for other states to model themselves after. Unfortunately, America's Health Rankings shows TN's position in 47th out of 50 states.
http://potentialandexpectations.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/this-americans-experience-of-britains-healthcare-system/
I believe this is an excellent, well-written blog/article by an American woman who has lived in and received care in both Britain and the U.S. The feedback is interesting. Everyone has their own stories to tell, as here, some good some, some bad.
Honestly, I DO believe ebbabc's story on her sister's care. I have no reason not to. But I am also interested in what other Brits have to say. I haven't yet been in touch with my own British relatives, but as the writer pointed out, her own story is just another story.
les6216, I'm in complete agreement with you. Truthfully, though, I cannot see Rutherford County volunteering itself as a pilot program. Likewise it would be terrific to see this county put itself on the map by establishing a pilot program that works for other states to model themselves after. Unfortunately, America's Health Rankings shows TN's position in 47th out of 50 states.
By: Geana on 8/27/09
ebbabc, I just tested the delete function on one of my posts and it worked here.
I don't know why it didn't work for you. But please don't delete your posts. Every person's view serves their purpose. It definitely gave me and perhaps others food for thought. In spite of having irked you, I'm glad I met you in this online community, also. Cheerio! (for now)
ebbabc, I just tested the delete function on one of my posts and it worked here.
I don't know why it didn't work for you. But please don't delete your posts. Every person's view serves their purpose. It definitely gave me and perhaps others food for thought. In spite of having irked you, I'm glad I met you in this online community, also. Cheerio! (for now)
By: ebbabc on 8/27/09
Geana, you just brought something to mind, I have a very dear friend who is living in Yorkshire, she and I have been friends since I was 3 years old, we are both senior citizens now. She personally knows all about my sister's dilemma, however she will tell anyone who wants to know that her health care has been very good and she has no complaints. :-) She is appalled at what she KNOWS happened to my sister in Lancashire, but she has nothing but praise for her NHS care. Go figure!
Sadly she has been in the early stages of senility for about a year. I sincerely hope her care continues to be good - the NHS is something we never had occasion to address until all this trouble with my sister started adding up. I thought you may be interested to know her feelings about that.
Geana, you just brought something to mind, I have a very dear friend who is living in Yorkshire, she and I have been friends since I was 3 years old, we are both senior citizens now. She personally knows all about my sister's dilemma, however she will tell anyone who wants to know that her health care has been very good and she has no complaints. :-) She is appalled at what she KNOWS happened to my sister in Lancashire, but she has nothing but praise for her NHS care. Go figure!
Sadly she has been in the early stages of senility for about a year. I sincerely hope her care continues to be good - the NHS is something we never had occasion to address until all this trouble with my sister started adding up. I thought you may be interested to know her feelings about that.
By: ebbabc on 8/27/09
It works, I was not signed in and my brain was asleep obviously :-).
I am curious why Dave's post was removed and I thought I noticed one of yours missing Geana, did I imagine that?
It works, I was not signed in and my brain was asleep obviously :-).
I am curious why Dave's post was removed and I thought I noticed one of yours missing Geana, did I imagine that?
By: ebbabc on 8/27/09
I just made a comment on the Sen Corker article.
I just made a comment on the Sen Corker article.
By: Farmall on 8/28/09
My stuff gets deleted all the time. There are certain people and organizations you can not mention in an unfavorable light, some in any light.
My stuff gets deleted all the time. There are certain people and organizations you can not mention in an unfavorable light, some in any light.
By: Dave42 on 8/28/09
Tenncare is the same as MediCal here in California which is the state run medicaid funded out of Washington which is broke. At this time my wife is in a convalescent hospital for rehab. Medical has informed us that her share of cost is $1,775.00 per month. That is about 2/3 of what our monthly income is. Now will someone please tell me why a system that we paid into for years tells us that we have to pay so much of a share of cost? It is run by beauracrats that just don't care, and are trying to rip off as much as they can. Plus if we leave any kind of an estate to our kids the medicaid system wants to be paid back first and formost before they get what's coming to them.
Tenncare is the same as MediCal here in California which is the state run medicaid funded out of Washington which is broke. At this time my wife is in a convalescent hospital for rehab. Medical has informed us that her share of cost is $1,775.00 per month. That is about 2/3 of what our monthly income is. Now will someone please tell me why a system that we paid into for years tells us that we have to pay so much of a share of cost? It is run by beauracrats that just don't care, and are trying to rip off as much as they can. Plus if we leave any kind of an estate to our kids the medicaid system wants to be paid back first and formost before they get what's coming to them.
By: Dave42 on 8/28/09
Another thig that hasn't been mentioned. Congress intends to take $400 BILLION from Medicare to help fund the Obamacare fiasco. That means that Medicare coverage will go further into the hole that it already is.
Another thig that hasn't been mentioned. Congress intends to take $400 BILLION from Medicare to help fund the Obamacare fiasco. That means that Medicare coverage will go further into the hole that it already is.
By: ebbabc on 8/28/09
Farmall, I deleted my main posts myself last evening. The bogeyman did not do it, :-)
Geana, I'm sorry about my deletes agfainst your wishes. I spoke to my sister and she was so dreadfully upset that I had related her story in a newspaper setting. I promised her I would remove it if I could. She was in tears saying how embarrassing to have your private matters discussed publicly. I explained that this is in another country - nobody knows her or me, that I never mentioned her name or whereabouts, promised not to do do so, that calmed her down a little. I am removing all my posts on this subject then I am sure I got the right ones :-)
Farmall, I deleted my main posts myself last evening. The bogeyman did not do it, :-)
Geana, I'm sorry about my deletes agfainst your wishes. I spoke to my sister and she was so dreadfully upset that I had related her story in a newspaper setting. I promised her I would remove it if I could. She was in tears saying how embarrassing to have your private matters discussed publicly. I explained that this is in another country - nobody knows her or me, that I never mentioned her name or whereabouts, promised not to do do so, that calmed her down a little. I am removing all my posts on this subject then I am sure I got the right ones :-)
By: ebbabc on 8/28/09
Dave42, I am so sorry you are in this predicament. I cannot think of anything the government does as being good and run honestly or fairly.
I am reading "Common Sense" by Glenn Beck, I highly recommend it - less than $10 and he takes the entire political system to task - both parties. I had forgotten about when the House members wrote all the hot checks on their House Bank accounts. Over $12,000 I think it said, not one of them was ever held to account for what they did, they could not even run their own Bank. We'd be serving time in a NY minute. Throw the bums out as they come up for re-election is the only solution before they do any more damage to out country.
Dave42, I am so sorry you are in this predicament. I cannot think of anything the government does as being good and run honestly or fairly.
I am reading "Common Sense" by Glenn Beck, I highly recommend it - less than $10 and he takes the entire political system to task - both parties. I had forgotten about when the House members wrote all the hot checks on their House Bank accounts. Over $12,000 I think it said, not one of them was ever held to account for what they did, they could not even run their own Bank. We'd be serving time in a NY minute. Throw the bums out as they come up for re-election is the only solution before they do any more damage to out country.
By: ebbabc on 8/28/09
STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSE'S MOUTH!
Those ho are interested might read these two articles, especially the second.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6105185/Fresh-embarrassment-for-David-Cameron-over-NHS.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglectful-care-of-one-million-NHS-patients-exposed.html
'Cruel and neglectful' care of one million NHS patients exposed
STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSE'S MOUTH!
Those ho are interested might read these two articles, especially the second.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6105185/Fresh-embarrassment-for-David-Cameron-over-NHS.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglectful-care-of-one-million-NHS-patients-exposed.html
'Cruel and neglectful' care of one million NHS patients exposed
By: Farmall on 8/28/09
ebbabc, I wasn't accusing the Post of deleting your stuff, just mine. And I am old enough to remember the check kiteing scandel from congress. Some of those guys were in hock over $30k. to the house bank.
ebbabc, I wasn't accusing the Post of deleting your stuff, just mine. And I am old enough to remember the check kiteing scandel from congress. Some of those guys were in hock over $30k. to the house bank.
By: Dave42 on 8/29/09
ebbabc
I'm reading Mark Levin's book "Liberty and Tyranny" now, Glen Becks book is next on my list. And speaking of Glen Beck, people need to go to his webpage and click on the link to hear what Ronald Reagan said about Government Healthcare Systems before he ran for President, it's very powerful and prophetic. Why is it called common sense when it is soooo uncommon?
ebbabc
I'm reading Mark Levin's book "Liberty and Tyranny" now, Glen Becks book is next on my list. And speaking of Glen Beck, people need to go to his webpage and click on the link to hear what Ronald Reagan said about Government Healthcare Systems before he ran for President, it's very powerful and prophetic. Why is it called common sense when it is soooo uncommon?
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