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Yahoo!Member Opinions:
By: diddlede on 3/13/09
Best news we have heard lately!
Best news we have heard lately!
By: Alaskadave on 3/13/09
Thank God, it couldn't happen soon enough. Now the big question...do we have to replace him? Isn't this why we elect a mayor? So if he sucks we can fire him at the next election. This was never an option with Mr. Haley. It is time to get rid of this council-manager form of government and put the citizens back in control.
Thank God, it couldn't happen soon enough. Now the big question...do we have to replace him? Isn't this why we elect a mayor? So if he sucks we can fire him at the next election. This was never an option with Mr. Haley. It is time to get rid of this council-manager form of government and put the citizens back in control.
By: Duvics on 3/13/09
Alaskadave, the citizens ARE in control. They vote. If people aren't voting, that's the problem, not the way the city is governed.
P.S.- Can you see Russia from your house too?
Alaskadave, the citizens ARE in control. They vote. If people aren't voting, that's the problem, not the way the city is governed.
P.S.- Can you see Russia from your house too?
By: wheeler_dave on 3/13/09
Who elected Roger Haley? He's just another over paid city official. The Mayor should have that job.
Who elected Roger Haley? He's just another over paid city official. The Mayor should have that job.
By: Duvics on 3/13/09
He was on the city council earlier in his career and then given the job when the last city manager retired. He is only the fourth person to have held that position of the City of Murfreesboro. Screw semantics, he was given the job because he had been elected to the council.
He was on the city council earlier in his career and then given the job when the last city manager retired. He is only the fourth person to have held that position of the City of Murfreesboro. Screw semantics, he was given the job because he had been elected to the council.
By: tealady on 3/13/09
Why do we have to wait until August 3? My employees only give 2 week notices...
Why do we have to wait until August 3? My employees only give 2 week notices...
By: Admiral on 3/13/09
So what has this guy done that invokes all the negatives? I'm new in town.
So what has this guy done that invokes all the negatives? I'm new in town.
By: wheeler_dave on 3/13/09
City council was an elected office. Who elected him city manger and what was his salary? What does the mayor do and what is his salary? Should this not be his job, to manage the city. Admiral he run the city and drew a big pay check at our expence.
City council was an elected office. Who elected him city manger and what was his salary? What does the mayor do and what is his salary? Should this not be his job, to manage the city. Admiral he run the city and drew a big pay check at our expence.
By: blues2 on 3/13/09
He was always negative when it came to common sense. His way was the only way. Glad to see him go.
He was always negative when it came to common sense. His way was the only way. Glad to see him go.
By: Tuffgirl on 3/13/09
One of the good old boy network that is still alive and well in the city. It time for local change! Get the real estate clan out of office, elect some common people with some common sense.
One of the good old boy network that is still alive and well in the city. It time for local change! Get the real estate clan out of office, elect some common people with some common sense.
By: Oblio on 3/13/09
Early in the twentieth century elected officials in many towns and cities were so corrupt, reformers suggested that the business model of administration should be applied to urban government. Taxpayers, the equivalent of company shareholders, would elect a council and mayor, the equivalent of a board of directors and its chairman. These elected officials would hire a city manager, the equivalent of the company president, who would be responsible for the day to day operation of the city.
The professional city manager would have special credentials and experience necessary to run the city in the best interest of taxpayers. Not being elected would remove him from the direct control of power brokers who controlled municipal elections. To further reduce the potential for city managers to cater to powerful local interests, some cities preferred to select managers from among persons who had never lived in their community.
If the city manager performed poorly, it would not be necessary to wait until the next election to replace him with someone else. The council's failure to take action against a corrupt or ineffective city manager could make the mayor and council vulnerable at the next election. Finally, since the mayor and council would be policy makers and would not be directly involved in the daily operation of the city, it would be difficult for them to use city resources to enhance their own or their friends individual interests.
In theory, it is a good system. It works best when people understand it and take advantage of its built-in safeguards. It seems to be working well in Smyrna. It has been very successful in hundreds of other towns and cities. It is not the purpose of this post to pass judgment on the Murfreesboro experience with the city manager form of municipal administration.
Early in the twentieth century elected officials in many towns and cities were so corrupt, reformers suggested that the business model of administration should be applied to urban government. Taxpayers, the equivalent of company shareholders, would elect a council and mayor, the equivalent of a board of directors and its chairman. These elected officials would hire a city manager, the equivalent of the company president, who would be responsible for the day to day operation of the city.
The professional city manager would have special credentials and experience necessary to run the city in the best interest of taxpayers. Not being elected would remove him from the direct control of power brokers who controlled municipal elections. To further reduce the potential for city managers to cater to powerful local interests, some cities preferred to select managers from among persons who had never lived in their community.
If the city manager performed poorly, it would not be necessary to wait until the next election to replace him with someone else. The council's failure to take action against a corrupt or ineffective city manager could make the mayor and council vulnerable at the next election. Finally, since the mayor and council would be policy makers and would not be directly involved in the daily operation of the city, it would be difficult for them to use city resources to enhance their own or their friends individual interests.
In theory, it is a good system. It works best when people understand it and take advantage of its built-in safeguards. It seems to be working well in Smyrna. It has been very successful in hundreds of other towns and cities. It is not the purpose of this post to pass judgment on the Murfreesboro experience with the city manager form of municipal administration.
By: Tuffgirl on 3/13/09
Blues2-The statement at the bottom of this article ask, “What's your opinion?” Well it obvious you have one like the rest of us. However, different than you I think it is the American thing for people to do, voice our opionions.
You sounded pretty intelligent until you said, “It is not the purpose of this post to pass judgment on the Murfreesboro experience with the city manager form of municipal administration.” This kind of identifies your loyalties to the good old boys.
Blues2-The statement at the bottom of this article ask, “What's your opinion?” Well it obvious you have one like the rest of us. However, different than you I think it is the American thing for people to do, voice our opionions.
You sounded pretty intelligent until you said, “It is not the purpose of this post to pass judgment on the Murfreesboro experience with the city manager form of municipal administration.” This kind of identifies your loyalties to the good old boys.
By: Tuffgirl on 3/13/09
Sorry Blues2 the good old boy is Oblio not you!
Sorry Blues2 the good old boy is Oblio not you!
By: Duvics on 3/13/09
tuffgirl-
Oblio just explained the EXACT opposite of what people on these posts refer to as the "good old boy" network. That actually doesn't exist.
Our city leaders are not at all free from oversight and they don't just shake hands and push political agendas without critical and analytical thought.
Instead of criticizing people and policy you don't understand, go out there and try and help with all of the problems that we have in our society. Wait, don't want to do that? Leave the hypocrisy at the door.
tuffgirl-
Oblio just explained the EXACT opposite of what people on these posts refer to as the "good old boy" network. That actually doesn't exist.
Our city leaders are not at all free from oversight and they don't just shake hands and push political agendas without critical and analytical thought.
Instead of criticizing people and policy you don't understand, go out there and try and help with all of the problems that we have in our society. Wait, don't want to do that? Leave the hypocrisy at the door.
By: Tuffgirl on 3/13/09
Let’s see. I get to work for the city as manager at Roger Haley’s pay and benefits after I am defeated for the city council. Sign me up!
Let’s see. I get to work for the city as manager at Roger Haley’s pay and benefits after I am defeated for the city council. Sign me up!
By: Felixstow on 3/13/09
Duvics-
What Oblio described is the Mayor - City Manager form of government. To take it a step further this form of governoring was supposed to provide for the job safety of employees from policital interference. It also provided for the "seamless" transfer of one Mayor-Council group to another without a disruption of the day-to-day operation of the city.
Now that is how our city government is supposed to supposed to work....but it doesn't. As mayors and councilmembers abdicated their oversight responsibility over the years the City Manager became more powerful.
Your second paragraph indicates you have either no real idea how the inner workings of city hall operates or you are one of the insiders.
Yes, I have been there and seen first hand how the system really works. My only hope is that the Mayor and Council will have the backbone to do a national search for someone with the education and experience to use the position in the currect way. Time will tell.
Duvics-
What Oblio described is the Mayor - City Manager form of government. To take it a step further this form of governoring was supposed to provide for the job safety of employees from policital interference. It also provided for the "seamless" transfer of one Mayor-Council group to another without a disruption of the day-to-day operation of the city.
Now that is how our city government is supposed to supposed to work....but it doesn't. As mayors and councilmembers abdicated their oversight responsibility over the years the City Manager became more powerful.
Your second paragraph indicates you have either no real idea how the inner workings of city hall operates or you are one of the insiders.
Yes, I have been there and seen first hand how the system really works. My only hope is that the Mayor and Council will have the backbone to do a national search for someone with the education and experience to use the position in the currect way. Time will tell.
By: Oblio on 3/13/09
Felixstow I totally agree. I was writing this while you were posting yours.
Tuffgirl
I was trying to state an opinion – but did not do it very well. I was trying to take issue with those who had called for doing away with the city manager system and for concentrating power in the hands of the mayor. The problem is not the system. The problem is the abuse of the system.
The city manager did many things well. The published record shows, however, problems in the area of inter-personal relations, whether with staff or the public. Not in the official record but my opinion all the same, I believe that he and some who report to him too often reach beyond the scope of their responsibilities and into the exclusive domain of elected officials. City managers do not make policy. They execute policy as defined by officials who are directly responsible to the people. That he could do so, however, reflects less poorly on him than on officials who permitted it while complaining about it behind his back. It also reflects poorly on the voters (and non-voters) who did not make their dissatisfaction with his administration the central issue in municipal elections.
The system is good. We should take advantage of its potential and defend it against those who would deliberately or out of ignorance undermine it. The mayor publicly indicating a preference for a new city manager is a significant erosion of the concept of city manager municipal administration. His choice is a fine one but this early endorsement tells would-be applicants that they need not apply. It may not be but it looks a lot like the way a good-old-boy system would work.
Felixstow I totally agree. I was writing this while you were posting yours.
Tuffgirl
I was trying to state an opinion – but did not do it very well. I was trying to take issue with those who had called for doing away with the city manager system and for concentrating power in the hands of the mayor. The problem is not the system. The problem is the abuse of the system.
The city manager did many things well. The published record shows, however, problems in the area of inter-personal relations, whether with staff or the public. Not in the official record but my opinion all the same, I believe that he and some who report to him too often reach beyond the scope of their responsibilities and into the exclusive domain of elected officials. City managers do not make policy. They execute policy as defined by officials who are directly responsible to the people. That he could do so, however, reflects less poorly on him than on officials who permitted it while complaining about it behind his back. It also reflects poorly on the voters (and non-voters) who did not make their dissatisfaction with his administration the central issue in municipal elections.
The system is good. We should take advantage of its potential and defend it against those who would deliberately or out of ignorance undermine it. The mayor publicly indicating a preference for a new city manager is a significant erosion of the concept of city manager municipal administration. His choice is a fine one but this early endorsement tells would-be applicants that they need not apply. It may not be but it looks a lot like the way a good-old-boy system would work.
By: barrettbear on 3/13/09
Just move to China.
Just move to China.
By: TimeforJustice on 3/13/09
Since development is down, why not retire. I guess that since the downturn of the economy he is only making half his normal pay rate. I guess now he knows how the rest of city personnel feel. Retirement was the only option. Two weeks is sufficient. Bye.
Since development is down, why not retire. I guess that since the downturn of the economy he is only making half his normal pay rate. I guess now he knows how the rest of city personnel feel. Retirement was the only option. Two weeks is sufficient. Bye.
By: Felixstow on 3/13/09
Ah, Barrettbear, another gem of wisdom tossed into the discussion.
Let us not confuse the form of government in Murfreesboro with the personalities of the players. The Mayor - City Manager type system, in a perfect situation, has less politics in the day-to-day running of the city than a strong Mayor form.
Ah, Barrettbear, another gem of wisdom tossed into the discussion.
Let us not confuse the form of government in Murfreesboro with the personalities of the players. The Mayor - City Manager type system, in a perfect situation, has less politics in the day-to-day running of the city than a strong Mayor form.
By: barrettbear on 3/13/09
I can think of a few more Fulixstew.
I can think of a few more Fulixstew.
By: justawalkn on 3/14/09
It is about time!!!!!!!!!!!Now lets offers some of the others a early retiremnt package. If you are not in the click of the "good ole boys" then you are a low life person. I hope that now the City will move forward and have a fair policy that will apply to all.
It is about time!!!!!!!!!!!Now lets offers some of the others a early retiremnt package. If you are not in the click of the "good ole boys" then you are a low life person. I hope that now the City will move forward and have a fair policy that will apply to all.
By: soon2b6 on 3/14/09
Felixstow, re: a National search, that is what both The United Way as well as the Chamber of Commerce did recently. This process was time consuming, very costly, and failed miserably. I hate to say it, but we need a local search to find some sharp person who knows our community. This is a very important and tough job. The responsibilities of the Murfreesboro City Manager are unbelievable. He/She actually creates the annual city budget to be presented to the mayor and council for approval and adoption. The City Manager oversees and "manages" all departments of the city... from the Fire dept, to the Garbage/waste department. From the Planning department... to the Police department... and all points in between. I personally don't relish the idea of an "outsider" coming in and taking over "our" city.
Felixstow, re: a National search, that is what both The United Way as well as the Chamber of Commerce did recently. This process was time consuming, very costly, and failed miserably. I hate to say it, but we need a local search to find some sharp person who knows our community. This is a very important and tough job. The responsibilities of the Murfreesboro City Manager are unbelievable. He/She actually creates the annual city budget to be presented to the mayor and council for approval and adoption. The City Manager oversees and "manages" all departments of the city... from the Fire dept, to the Garbage/waste department. From the Planning department... to the Police department... and all points in between. I personally don't relish the idea of an "outsider" coming in and taking over "our" city.
By: Duvics on 3/14/09
soon2b6's comment is spot on. if you think Haley gets paid too much, think about the fact that the mayor (a PART-TIME employee in our system) makes $12,000 and works twice more than the amount he is paid. Haley's pay is based off of his experience in dealing with all of the city's departments. Plus, just like any other gainfully employed citizen, he gets a raise each year and has been in his position for 20 years. The math isn't really complicated if you have common sense.
soon2b6's comment is spot on. if you think Haley gets paid too much, think about the fact that the mayor (a PART-TIME employee in our system) makes $12,000 and works twice more than the amount he is paid. Haley's pay is based off of his experience in dealing with all of the city's departments. Plus, just like any other gainfully employed citizen, he gets a raise each year and has been in his position for 20 years. The math isn't really complicated if you have common sense.
By: soon2b6 on 3/14/09
I think that the obvious candidate to hire is Mr. Rob Lyons if he his willing. This person has worked for the City for over 10 years as Haley's assistant, and why would anyone stay at a position that long unless he hoped one day to be the Manager. I do not know his education, but I heard he had an Engineering Degree. I think he is young, smart, and well educated as to what Murfreesboro is needing in a successor to Roger Haley. Developers and Real Estate moguls have all lost their "a" in the last 12 months. We need an individual that knows the comings and goings of Murfreesboro to step in and seemlessly progress forward. We do not need another "Yankee" "Know-it All" to ride into town after a 10 month search and tell us how to "run" our City.
I only hope Rob is willing to do this as he will be extremely scrutinized by all of the community, posters, & bloggers.
If you were him.... would you want this job?
If you were him.... would you want all of this criticism? Not me, no way man. Who wants to go home every night knowing that folks like on this opinion page are "nailing" you every chance they get.
Oh, by the way, I think Mr. Roger Haley pushed the City of Murfreesboro as well as anyone could ever hope a City Manager could do. Look at what we have accomplished in the past 20 years. People out there please think about what I constantly post...for about the 5th time... When it comes to a community... you are either growing or dying. Very rarely can a community sit still. If you do not like growth, then please move to Woodbury, you'll love it!!!
I think that the obvious candidate to hire is Mr. Rob Lyons if he his willing. This person has worked for the City for over 10 years as Haley's assistant, and why would anyone stay at a position that long unless he hoped one day to be the Manager. I do not know his education, but I heard he had an Engineering Degree. I think he is young, smart, and well educated as to what Murfreesboro is needing in a successor to Roger Haley. Developers and Real Estate moguls have all lost their "a" in the last 12 months. We need an individual that knows the comings and goings of Murfreesboro to step in and seemlessly progress forward. We do not need another "Yankee" "Know-it All" to ride into town after a 10 month search and tell us how to "run" our City.
I only hope Rob is willing to do this as he will be extremely scrutinized by all of the community, posters, & bloggers.
If you were him.... would you want this job?
If you were him.... would you want all of this criticism? Not me, no way man. Who wants to go home every night knowing that folks like on this opinion page are "nailing" you every chance they get.
Oh, by the way, I think Mr. Roger Haley pushed the City of Murfreesboro as well as anyone could ever hope a City Manager could do. Look at what we have accomplished in the past 20 years. People out there please think about what I constantly post...for about the 5th time... When it comes to a community... you are either growing or dying. Very rarely can a community sit still. If you do not like growth, then please move to Woodbury, you'll love it!!!
By: Admiral on 3/15/09
Very perspicacious observations if I do say so myself. Thanks.
Very perspicacious observations if I do say so myself. Thanks.
By: candvlawn on 3/18/09
Out with the old in with the same.
Out with the old in with the same.
By: Felixstow on 3/19/09
Soon2b6, while your point concerning the Chamber and United Way is well taken, there should still be a search for the position. I have watched for too many years the passing down of the torch to the next in line in the city. While many of them have been excellent choices, how do we know who else is out there without looking. Do a search and if Mr. Lyons is the top candidate hire him. At least this way both the public and Mr. Lyons know he got the job based on qualifications.
On growth your statement is way to simple. Without directed growth, you die. Growth is good but it has to be controlled and directed by the the city, not developers, to keep services and schools up to date without constantly playing catch up all around the city. Mr. Haley and members of council were far too close to the developement cartel to make good decisions about growth. What you see from the outside isn't always what it might seem.
Soon2b6, while your point concerning the Chamber and United Way is well taken, there should still be a search for the position. I have watched for too many years the passing down of the torch to the next in line in the city. While many of them have been excellent choices, how do we know who else is out there without looking. Do a search and if Mr. Lyons is the top candidate hire him. At least this way both the public and Mr. Lyons know he got the job based on qualifications.
On growth your statement is way to simple. Without directed growth, you die. Growth is good but it has to be controlled and directed by the the city, not developers, to keep services and schools up to date without constantly playing catch up all around the city. Mr. Haley and members of council were far too close to the developement cartel to make good decisions about growth. What you see from the outside isn't always what it might seem.
By: barrettbear on 3/20/09
I like your style Felixstow. Very truthful.
I like your style Felixstow. Very truthful.
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