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Member Opinions:
By: KevinHalpern on 2/3/09
Excellent coverage Lisa M.
Excellent coverage Lisa M.
By: cindyphi on 2/3/09
To the family, We hope you know how much you are loved. Rest assured that we're remaining constant in prayer on your behalf. May God's sweet Spirit bring you comfort, may you have a peaceful night's sleep, and Hallelujah!
To the family, We hope you know how much you are loved. Rest assured that we're remaining constant in prayer on your behalf. May God's sweet Spirit bring you comfort, may you have a peaceful night's sleep, and Hallelujah!
By: Sameera on 2/4/09
Wow! Christi's even more beautiful than her age progressions - and they already gave a good indication that she had grown into a beautiful woman!
Wow! Christi's even more beautiful than her age progressions - and they already gave a good indication that she had grown into a beautiful woman!
By: RonB on 2/4/09
Why did Maple kidnap the kids in the first place?
Why did Maple kidnap the kids in the first place?
By: eagle50 on 2/4/09
"When Mark Baskin decided to obtain his master’s degree at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in the late 1980s in Louisville, Ky., the Maples kept Christy and Bobby while Baskin, his wife, and youngest son, Michael, settled in. But when the parents wanted their children back, the Maples accused them of sexually abusing Christie and Bobby.
The children remained with the Maples during several months of an investigation and court proceedings. During that time, Baskin became so frustrated he called the Department of Children’s Services and accused the Maples of abusing his children, asking the children be put into a foster home while the case was settled.
Just before the court cleared the Baskins, the Maples’ disappeared in March 1989"
RonB--the above was in an article a few weeks ago. The Maples accused the Baskin's of abusing the kids. When the Maples lost custody, they fled with the two grandkids.
"When Mark Baskin decided to obtain his master’s degree at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in the late 1980s in Louisville, Ky., the Maples kept Christy and Bobby while Baskin, his wife, and youngest son, Michael, settled in. But when the parents wanted their children back, the Maples accused them of sexually abusing Christie and Bobby.
The children remained with the Maples during several months of an investigation and court proceedings. During that time, Baskin became so frustrated he called the Department of Children’s Services and accused the Maples of abusing his children, asking the children be put into a foster home while the case was settled.
Just before the court cleared the Baskins, the Maples’ disappeared in March 1989"
RonB--the above was in an article a few weeks ago. The Maples accused the Baskin's of abusing the kids. When the Maples lost custody, they fled with the two grandkids.
By: Sameera on 2/4/09
We should learn more as the trial proceedings progress. I for one am absolutely dying to learn more about what happened 20 years ago, how all parties feel about it now, and how things will work out.
We should learn more as the trial proceedings progress. I for one am absolutely dying to learn more about what happened 20 years ago, how all parties feel about it now, and how things will work out.
By: diddlede on 2/4/09
We knew granparents on the Baskin side and there were many versions of what happened to cause the Maples to take the children and leave town. If sexual abuse was the cause then law enforcement either overlooked something or it was not true in the first place. God be with this family as all the details come out.
We knew granparents on the Baskin side and there were many versions of what happened to cause the Maples to take the children and leave town. If sexual abuse was the cause then law enforcement either overlooked something or it was not true in the first place. God be with this family as all the details come out.
By: lombo77 on 2/5/09
I worked with Jenn in San Jose and she is a very sweet and lovely woman. Don't know what the story full is but the grandfather raised a girl in to a successful woman... I wish her and her brother the best during this very difficult time.
I worked with Jenn in San Jose and she is a very sweet and lovely woman. Don't know what the story full is but the grandfather raised a girl in to a successful woman... I wish her and her brother the best during this very difficult time.
By: LifesRealDeal on 2/5/09
I'm an acquaintance of Jennifer's and it's serious business for the Maples to just cut off contact with their own daughter, Baskin, so they had good reason to flee with their grandchildren, Jennifer and Jonathan.
No brainwashing was involved. Jennifer remembers the abuse they suffered in detail and has absolutely no interest in seeing her parents ever again. It's from her own personal memories, before leaving with the Maples in 89, that the abuse memories derive.
Jennifer and Jonathan stand by their grandfather and are now seeking legal council for him. They know Maples is their grandfather, but chose to call him Dad.
The truth will come out for all to see and for the Baskins to have to contend with morally, spiritually and hopefully legally.
I'm an acquaintance of Jennifer's and it's serious business for the Maples to just cut off contact with their own daughter, Baskin, so they had good reason to flee with their grandchildren, Jennifer and Jonathan.
No brainwashing was involved. Jennifer remembers the abuse they suffered in detail and has absolutely no interest in seeing her parents ever again. It's from her own personal memories, before leaving with the Maples in 89, that the abuse memories derive.
Jennifer and Jonathan stand by their grandfather and are now seeking legal council for him. They know Maples is their grandfather, but chose to call him Dad.
The truth will come out for all to see and for the Baskins to have to contend with morally, spiritually and hopefully legally.
By: Boo on 2/5/09
What beautiful people these two children have grown up to be. I hope this mess is soon resolved, the truth comes out, and these two young people can get on with their lives. God Bless both of you!
What beautiful people these two children have grown up to be. I hope this mess is soon resolved, the truth comes out, and these two young people can get on with their lives. God Bless both of you!
By: Spit-Fire on 2/5/09
It makes me SO happy to know what a great job Marvin and Sandra did raising the kids! I kept telling everyone there was more to this story but no one wanted to believe me. It seems people would rather assume the worst, which is a real shame. The Maples have always been caring, loving, family oriented people. To "LifesRealDeal", thank you so much for confirming to the public what some of us already knew from day one. I've been going to bat for the Maples for all these years and my posts would get deleted, etc. Please tell Jennifer/Christy she has lots of relatives in Michigan who care very much about her, Jonathan/Bobby, and Marvin. We are so happy that the entire story is finally going to be told! It's about time!
It makes me SO happy to know what a great job Marvin and Sandra did raising the kids! I kept telling everyone there was more to this story but no one wanted to believe me. It seems people would rather assume the worst, which is a real shame. The Maples have always been caring, loving, family oriented people. To "LifesRealDeal", thank you so much for confirming to the public what some of us already knew from day one. I've been going to bat for the Maples for all these years and my posts would get deleted, etc. Please tell Jennifer/Christy she has lots of relatives in Michigan who care very much about her, Jonathan/Bobby, and Marvin. We are so happy that the entire story is finally going to be told! It's about time!
By: vdanr on 2/5/09
Even if there was abuse when they were children, it was still wrong for the grandparents to kidnap them and then go into hiding. For those of you who knew where they were, I think they call that withholding information and/or accessory to the crime.
Don't get me wrong, I don't condone abuse of any kind, but I do believe things should be handled properly and this was not the way to do it.
Even if there was abuse when they were children, it was still wrong for the grandparents to kidnap them and then go into hiding. For those of you who knew where they were, I think they call that withholding information and/or accessory to the crime.
Don't get me wrong, I don't condone abuse of any kind, but I do believe things should be handled properly and this was not the way to do it.
By: JerseyGirl on 2/5/09
If the Baskins had abused the children, why did they both deny ever being abused? Investigators cleared the Baskins of any wrongdoing. The Baskins have even adopted a child; are you familiar with the process of being cleared to adopt?? If there were any shred of evidence of abuse, they would not have been approved to adopt. Young children are vulnerable, impressionable, and will believe what they are told to be truth over and over again. This is what I believe happened with these precious children -- who are now adults. Of course they're going to believe the lies they've been told. Guilty people don't appear all over TV and the internet looking for their kidnapped children; and innocent people don't kidnap other people's children and change their names to avoid being caught.
If the Baskins had abused the children, why did they both deny ever being abused? Investigators cleared the Baskins of any wrongdoing. The Baskins have even adopted a child; are you familiar with the process of being cleared to adopt?? If there were any shred of evidence of abuse, they would not have been approved to adopt. Young children are vulnerable, impressionable, and will believe what they are told to be truth over and over again. This is what I believe happened with these precious children -- who are now adults. Of course they're going to believe the lies they've been told. Guilty people don't appear all over TV and the internet looking for their kidnapped children; and innocent people don't kidnap other people's children and change their names to avoid being caught.
By: JerseyGirl on 2/5/09
One more thing: if the Maples were so worried about the Baskins abusing their children, why did they leave their youngest, most vulnerable grandchild, Michael, with the Baskins? Why not take him too? Their story just doesn't add up.
One more thing: if the Maples were so worried about the Baskins abusing their children, why did they leave their youngest, most vulnerable grandchild, Michael, with the Baskins? Why not take him too? Their story just doesn't add up.
By: dhtexan on 2/5/09
This is a sad story that none of us, as readers, have the answers to. Taking sides doesn't answer anything. Only the children and the parents can resolve the issues we've read about and I, for one, hope that the real truth surfaces and the story has an ending that isn't sad.
This is a sad story that none of us, as readers, have the answers to. Taking sides doesn't answer anything. Only the children and the parents can resolve the issues we've read about and I, for one, hope that the real truth surfaces and the story has an ending that isn't sad.
By: JerseyGirl on 2/5/09
InTheMaplesDefense, please explain the Michael issue one more time. It makes no sense to be a "protective" grandparent, yet leave behind the most vulnerable of them all. And what about the Baskins being approved as foster parents and then adoptive parents? What of the judge's comments about the Maples being abusive -- abusing the legal system? What about the evidence? Where is the evidence of wrongdoing on the Baskins part? There is none.
InTheMaplesDefense, please explain the Michael issue one more time. It makes no sense to be a "protective" grandparent, yet leave behind the most vulnerable of them all. And what about the Baskins being approved as foster parents and then adoptive parents? What of the judge's comments about the Maples being abusive -- abusing the legal system? What about the evidence? Where is the evidence of wrongdoing on the Baskins part? There is none.
By: eagle50 on 2/5/09
"It's from her own personal memories, before leaving with the Maples in 89, that the abuse memories derive." per reallifedeal
The only problem, the kids were living with the grandparents and the parents and Michael were living in KY. How did the parents abuse them from another state?
"It's from her own personal memories, before leaving with the Maples in 89, that the abuse memories derive." per reallifedeal
The only problem, the kids were living with the grandparents and the parents and Michael were living in KY. How did the parents abuse them from another state?
By: map on 2/5/09
I think we should just pray that the truth can make it into the courtroom. I remember seeing a movie recently that was based on a true story and the parents spent many years in prison because the authorities kept telling the children, "it's okay to tell us what your parents did". They suggested things and asked them if it happened. Finally the kids were telling lies and didn't even realize it. When they were grown, they couldn't remember what was true and what was a lie. Very disturbing either way. The children may not know the truth themselves. So sad.
I think we should just pray that the truth can make it into the courtroom. I remember seeing a movie recently that was based on a true story and the parents spent many years in prison because the authorities kept telling the children, "it's okay to tell us what your parents did". They suggested things and asked them if it happened. Finally the kids were telling lies and didn't even realize it. When they were grown, they couldn't remember what was true and what was a lie. Very disturbing either way. The children may not know the truth themselves. So sad.
By: map on 2/5/09
The movie is called "Just Ask My Children" and is based on a true story about Brenda and Scott Kniffen. Their children were ages 6 and 9. The parents kept saying just ask my children. The children were coached by authorities and didn't know they were even lying. No one and I mean NO ONE may actually point fingers. You must see this movie. I cried through most of it. For the parents and for the children. Even the Baskin children may not actually know.
The movie is called "Just Ask My Children" and is based on a true story about Brenda and Scott Kniffen. Their children were ages 6 and 9. The parents kept saying just ask my children. The children were coached by authorities and didn't know they were even lying. No one and I mean NO ONE may actually point fingers. You must see this movie. I cried through most of it. For the parents and for the children. Even the Baskin children may not actually know.
By: underwatch on 2/5/09
Family Abduction is considered one of the cruelest forms of child maltreatment. There is always a legal alternative but what the professionals have found that usually those that commit this crime believe that a different set of rules apply to them then the rest of the society. On the day that Marvin and Sandra Maple kidnapped the Baskin children, changed their names -- for those of us that have raised 8 year old children, we would know how horrible this crime is. It is unfortunate that Jennifer and Bobby are supporting their grandparent. They sound like well-adjusted young adults under the circumstances. They are still young adults and it would be far better for them to save their money for counseling and talk to other survivors of this crime such as the organization TakeRoot.org. What is really sad is that they are the victims in this case and they will be victimized once again by supporting their grandfather. There were many of these complex cases with unfounded abuse allegations in the '80s such as the McMartin case, Elizabeth Morgan. During that time, making up false allegations was a common legal maneuver to gain custody of your children. I only hope that Jennifer and Bobby can "adult-up" in this situation and keep an open mind toward their biological parents. They really were too young at ages 7 and 8 at the time of the kidnapping to allow them the independent thinking as an adult today to determine what is best for themselves and their families without serious counseling from top notch professionals.
Family Abduction is considered one of the cruelest forms of child maltreatment. There is always a legal alternative but what the professionals have found that usually those that commit this crime believe that a different set of rules apply to them then the rest of the society. On the day that Marvin and Sandra Maple kidnapped the Baskin children, changed their names -- for those of us that have raised 8 year old children, we would know how horrible this crime is. It is unfortunate that Jennifer and Bobby are supporting their grandparent. They sound like well-adjusted young adults under the circumstances. They are still young adults and it would be far better for them to save their money for counseling and talk to other survivors of this crime such as the organization TakeRoot.org. What is really sad is that they are the victims in this case and they will be victimized once again by supporting their grandfather. There were many of these complex cases with unfounded abuse allegations in the '80s such as the McMartin case, Elizabeth Morgan. During that time, making up false allegations was a common legal maneuver to gain custody of your children. I only hope that Jennifer and Bobby can "adult-up" in this situation and keep an open mind toward their biological parents. They really were too young at ages 7 and 8 at the time of the kidnapping to allow them the independent thinking as an adult today to determine what is best for themselves and their families without serious counseling from top notch professionals.
By: lombo77 on 2/5/09
Look folks, our "system" has failed many, many, many children in this country. Sad to say, but the system is compelled to side with the biological parents... That is complete crap. I'm sorry, "loving" your children does NOT make you a good parent. Not in any way shape or form. Love matters, but there is much more that goes in to it. Too many ignorant, immature and mentally unsound people are parenting kids. Just because you love your kids and couldn't imagine them not being with you doesn't mean that you are a fit parent. The vast majority of kids today need multiple adults to really care about/for them. All I know is that this grandfather raised a very smart and kind woman. Hate to break it to y'all, but people who are completely brainwashed or manipulated throughout their lives do not lead the productive and successful life that Jenn led. They are withdrawn and anti-social. Jenn is not either of those.
Seeing these parents on TV last night made me cringe. Did you notice the young adopted kid was quite withdrawn with his hat pulled down way low and he never raised his head and looked at the camera? Notice that? Those my friends are often the signs of an abused child. For all of the biological parents grandstanding on TV about what a horrible person the grandfather is, if things should show that the parents abused their kids I hope they both are put in prison and beat like child abusing scum should be.
Jenn is a great woman and I hope none of you dare pass judgment on anything she says of the things in the past. How dare any of us second guess this woman.
Look folks, our "system" has failed many, many, many children in this country. Sad to say, but the system is compelled to side with the biological parents... That is complete crap. I'm sorry, "loving" your children does NOT make you a good parent. Not in any way shape or form. Love matters, but there is much more that goes in to it. Too many ignorant, immature and mentally unsound people are parenting kids. Just because you love your kids and couldn't imagine them not being with you doesn't mean that you are a fit parent. The vast majority of kids today need multiple adults to really care about/for them. All I know is that this grandfather raised a very smart and kind woman. Hate to break it to y'all, but people who are completely brainwashed or manipulated throughout their lives do not lead the productive and successful life that Jenn led. They are withdrawn and anti-social. Jenn is not either of those.
Seeing these parents on TV last night made me cringe. Did you notice the young adopted kid was quite withdrawn with his hat pulled down way low and he never raised his head and looked at the camera? Notice that? Those my friends are often the signs of an abused child. For all of the biological parents grandstanding on TV about what a horrible person the grandfather is, if things should show that the parents abused their kids I hope they both are put in prison and beat like child abusing scum should be.
Jenn is a great woman and I hope none of you dare pass judgment on anything she says of the things in the past. How dare any of us second guess this woman.
By: voiceofreason on 2/5/09
Looks like we will at least learn the real story from the real kids/victims in this saga in a very short time. If the Baskin's were molesting their children, then the grandparents will be the hero's of the story. If the Baskin's were not abusing their children, then the opposite is true. I do find it odd though, after all of these years, and since becoming of age, the children did not seek out their parents or other sibling. That fact, in and of itself, speaks volumes. With that said, I do think that their stories need to be heard, and that justice needs to be done. Time will answer all of our questions.
Looks like we will at least learn the real story from the real kids/victims in this saga in a very short time. If the Baskin's were molesting their children, then the grandparents will be the hero's of the story. If the Baskin's were not abusing their children, then the opposite is true. I do find it odd though, after all of these years, and since becoming of age, the children did not seek out their parents or other sibling. That fact, in and of itself, speaks volumes. With that said, I do think that their stories need to be heard, and that justice needs to be done. Time will answer all of our questions.
By: TheLostOne on 2/5/09
I am the son of the Baskins.
To LifesRealDeal...you are full of crap. I am adopted! How can you adopt someone if you are accused of abuse! You Make Me Sick! Let alone my family.
To all that are praying My family and I love you all and thank you very much. watch news and updates online to stay with the story.
I am the son of the Baskins.
To LifesRealDeal...you are full of crap. I am adopted! How can you adopt someone if you are accused of abuse! You Make Me Sick! Let alone my family.
To all that are praying My family and I love you all and thank you very much. watch news and updates online to stay with the story.
By: TheLostOne on 2/5/09
btw lambo77
I was just looking at the ground cuz no one likes to see there mom cry. If you watch others I'm fine. Don't judge what you see. Also, that is the one and only clip of us. In case you didnt know. EVERY news channel calling us and showing the same video.
btw lambo77
I was just looking at the ground cuz no one likes to see there mom cry. If you watch others I'm fine. Don't judge what you see. Also, that is the one and only clip of us. In case you didnt know. EVERY news channel calling us and showing the same video.
By: TheLostOne on 2/5/09
Also, to everyone pretty much. I just want to meet my brother and sister. Sorry if im such a bad kid for wanting to see them.
Also, to everyone pretty much. I just want to meet my brother and sister. Sorry if im such a bad kid for wanting to see them.
By: TheLostOne on 2/5/09
"The only problem, the kids were living with the grandparents and the parents and Michael were living in KY. How did the parents abuse them from another state?" - Eagle50
THANK YOU!
"The only problem, the kids were living with the grandparents and the parents and Michael were living in KY. How did the parents abuse them from another state?" - Eagle50
THANK YOU!
By: stardust on 2/5/09
So Michael was in another state... ok. So why didn't they go to authorities when they got custody of Christie and Bobby and get Michael too? It just doesn't make sense, because it's all lies.
So Michael was in another state... ok. So why didn't they go to authorities when they got custody of Christie and Bobby and get Michael too? It just doesn't make sense, because it's all lies.
By: TheLostOne on 2/5/09
I just find it funny that we cry for them and you don't believe us...
I just find it funny that we cry for them and you don't believe us...
By: stardust on 2/5/09
Also, just because the daughter claims to remember abuse still doesn't even mean it happened. You tell an 8 year old enough times that something happened and they will eventually start to believe you, especially if you are someone they look up to, respect and love. It's called brainwashing. None of you know whether or not that happened, so just because someone might have been told something happened 20 years ago, doesn't mean it did. Sadly we will probably never really know the truth. In the mean time, I am going to believe what several people with no agenda are saying, those who cleared the Baskins, those who let them adopt another child, etc... rather than what is being claimed by the few people who do have one.
Also, just because the daughter claims to remember abuse still doesn't even mean it happened. You tell an 8 year old enough times that something happened and they will eventually start to believe you, especially if you are someone they look up to, respect and love. It's called brainwashing. None of you know whether or not that happened, so just because someone might have been told something happened 20 years ago, doesn't mean it did. Sadly we will probably never really know the truth. In the mean time, I am going to believe what several people with no agenda are saying, those who cleared the Baskins, those who let them adopt another child, etc... rather than what is being claimed by the few people who do have one.
By: cindyphi on 2/5/09
Dear TheLostOne,
We pray for you without ceasing. All of you. I thank God you have such a strong voice, and that you are speaking up for yourself. Please know that literally hundreds of thousands of people are praying for each of you by name and by heart. We're praying for healing and resolution.
Bless you,
Cindy Phiffer
Dear TheLostOne,
We pray for you without ceasing. All of you. I thank God you have such a strong voice, and that you are speaking up for yourself. Please know that literally hundreds of thousands of people are praying for each of you by name and by heart. We're praying for healing and resolution.
Bless you,
Cindy Phiffer
By: TheLostOne on 2/5/09
I thank you
I thank you
By: LewisClark on 2/5/09
It is public record that Mark Baskin filed sexual abuse charges against his OWN father, Mac Baskin, about 21.5 years ago regarding the abuse of Bobby. He then dropped the charges a little later. Like I said, public record... you can look it up.
It is public record that Mark Baskin filed sexual abuse charges against his OWN father, Mac Baskin, about 21.5 years ago regarding the abuse of Bobby. He then dropped the charges a little later. Like I said, public record... you can look it up.
By: PCLady on 2/5/09
to thelostone, sweetie, we know the truth. not to worry. we know your family. i am actually a relative by marriage. you have our full support and many prayers. i knew mack and know charlotte and my husband grew up with your dad and other siblings.
please try to not let the negative comments get to you. your murfreesboro family are overjoyed that your brother and sister have been found! i'm sure it would have been extremely difficult for the kids to try to make contact with your parents. they would have run the risk of getting the maples into serious trouble had they surfaced. and since the maples were the only family they had known since the age of 7 and 8, i'm sure that was a horrifying prospect for them--since the maples obviously loved them and raised them. it's just a shame that their love was the selfish and controlling kind. what a terrible burden they put on Christi and Bobby, aka Jenn and Jonathan with their narcissistic need to control their poor daughter.
just know that we are sending up fervent prayers for you guys!!!
to thelostone, sweetie, we know the truth. not to worry. we know your family. i am actually a relative by marriage. you have our full support and many prayers. i knew mack and know charlotte and my husband grew up with your dad and other siblings.
please try to not let the negative comments get to you. your murfreesboro family are overjoyed that your brother and sister have been found! i'm sure it would have been extremely difficult for the kids to try to make contact with your parents. they would have run the risk of getting the maples into serious trouble had they surfaced. and since the maples were the only family they had known since the age of 7 and 8, i'm sure that was a horrifying prospect for them--since the maples obviously loved them and raised them. it's just a shame that their love was the selfish and controlling kind. what a terrible burden they put on Christi and Bobby, aka Jenn and Jonathan with their narcissistic need to control their poor daughter.
just know that we are sending up fervent prayers for you guys!!!
By: TheLostOne on 2/5/09
My family thanks you
My family thanks you
By: IHateEvilDoers on 2/5/09
TheLostOne, me and God's warriors kept posting that YouTube video of Unsolved M to make sure the Baskins were found and the Maples were caught. It's been pulled by the Devil again but its still up on MySpace
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=44272348
TheLostOne, me and God's warriors kept posting that YouTube video of Unsolved M to make sure the Baskins were found and the Maples were caught. It's been pulled by the Devil again but its still up on MySpace
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=44272348
By: Sameera on 2/5/09
The segment has been pulled again from YouTube - ironically, right after the case was solved and there was no need for it anymore. And I had just posted a comment there saying the case had just been solved!
I am looking forward to seeing the segment again - with the update attached. The new Unsolved Mysteries should oblige soon.
The segment has been pulled again from YouTube - ironically, right after the case was solved and there was no need for it anymore. And I had just posted a comment there saying the case had just been solved!
I am looking forward to seeing the segment again - with the update attached. The new Unsolved Mysteries should oblige soon.
By: horselightning on 2/5/09
The most important think here is Bobby/Jonathon, Christy/Jennifer, Michael and Paul. Have enough respect not to judge them or post how their feeling. No one is inside another person and can know how they feel no matter how close you are to them or how well you think you know them. Their feelings should be said to each other when they are ready to say them. Not by anyone else or to bunch of strangers online. have enough heart to let them deal with their feelings privatly.
I do hope the best for all four.
The most important think here is Bobby/Jonathon, Christy/Jennifer, Michael and Paul. Have enough respect not to judge them or post how their feeling. No one is inside another person and can know how they feel no matter how close you are to them or how well you think you know them. Their feelings should be said to each other when they are ready to say them. Not by anyone else or to bunch of strangers online. have enough heart to let them deal with their feelings privatly.
I do hope the best for all four.
By: TheLostOne on 2/5/09
Horselighting - good words
InTheMaplesDefense - i don't need petty sympathy from you I don't think. You can believe the lies and we will believe the truth.
Horselighting - good words
InTheMaplesDefense - i don't need petty sympathy from you I don't think. You can believe the lies and we will believe the truth.
By: TheLostOne on 2/5/09
OH! and btw way MapleDefense. When the Truth does come out. I will stand to my feet and celebrate when they are in unity. Wanna know why? because that is the truth!
OH! and btw way MapleDefense. When the Truth does come out. I will stand to my feet and celebrate when they are in unity. Wanna know why? because that is the truth!
By: JerseyGirl on 2/5/09
((((LostOne)))) We are continuing to pray for you, your precious parents, your brothers and sister!!
((((LostOne)))) We are continuing to pray for you, your precious parents, your brothers and sister!!
By: lombo77 on 2/6/09
LostOne, I shouldn't have been as crass as to have suggested what i did... I'm sorry for having done that.
This is clearly a situation where neither you, given you were not in picture when these things happened, nor i can possibly think we know the truth... All i know is that Jennifer is a lovely woman and i feel horrible for how her life is now thrown completely upside down. The truth is, she is the only person out of all of this that i know and that i can connect with and feel great anguish for. I'm certain there are others suffering in this as well...
Peace be with all those effected by this.
LostOne, I shouldn't have been as crass as to have suggested what i did... I'm sorry for having done that.
This is clearly a situation where neither you, given you were not in picture when these things happened, nor i can possibly think we know the truth... All i know is that Jennifer is a lovely woman and i feel horrible for how her life is now thrown completely upside down. The truth is, she is the only person out of all of this that i know and that i can connect with and feel great anguish for. I'm certain there are others suffering in this as well...
Peace be with all those effected by this.
By: horselightning on 2/6/09
I feel for the four bobby/jonathon, christy/jennifer, micahel and paul. This is going to be very life changing. I know we dont want to cause them any more pain than they have been going through. I do wish them smooth sailing for the future. So lets speak from are hearts and be understanding of what all involved are going through.
I feel for the four bobby/jonathon, christy/jennifer, micahel and paul. This is going to be very life changing. I know we dont want to cause them any more pain than they have been going through. I do wish them smooth sailing for the future. So lets speak from are hearts and be understanding of what all involved are going through.
By: grneyes on 2/6/09
to the families on BOTH sides, my heart goes out to you! there is so much more to this case that we (the readers of the media) do not know, and we probably never will. while i can not say abuse occured nor am i saying that taking someone elses children is ever right, but at 7 and 8 children are capable of calling home on their own. if the children truely wanted to return home they were old enough to contact them. i think this is something that people should keep in mind.
there will be a lot of healing that needs to be done here. i hope that jonathon and jennifer are able to build a relationship with michael. i am also thankful that they have one another to lean on during this time.
to the families on BOTH sides, my heart goes out to you! there is so much more to this case that we (the readers of the media) do not know, and we probably never will. while i can not say abuse occured nor am i saying that taking someone elses children is ever right, but at 7 and 8 children are capable of calling home on their own. if the children truely wanted to return home they were old enough to contact them. i think this is something that people should keep in mind.
there will be a lot of healing that needs to be done here. i hope that jonathon and jennifer are able to build a relationship with michael. i am also thankful that they have one another to lean on during this time.
By: smurphy on 2/6/09
Well, the point is that most of us on here do not know and first hand knowledge of this family or what really happened. All I want to say is the I hope everyone involved can make it through this and everyone will be happy. No matter what, at least everyone in the family (both sided) now knows that the kids are OK. Bless them all!
Well, the point is that most of us on here do not know and first hand knowledge of this family or what really happened. All I want to say is the I hope everyone involved can make it through this and everyone will be happy. No matter what, at least everyone in the family (both sided) now knows that the kids are OK. Bless them all!
By: SparkOfSanity on 2/6/09
Regardless of who thinks who did what to who, this is what we all know for sure:
1) The Baskin children were kidnapped by their grandparents. No matter how you slice it, that is the legal definition for what they did. Mark and Debbie had legal custody, Sandra and Marvin took the kids and did not allow them to come back. That is kidnapping and a felony.
2) The Baskin, Mark and Debbie, were cleared by a court of law of any wrongdoing and were even allowed to adopt a child. You can smear people and make accusations all day long, but the fact of the matter is they were proven innocent and there is no evidence to the contrary.
All indications are that "Jennifer" and "Jonathan" thought that Sandra and Marvin were their parents, so whoever posted claiming to know Jennifer/Christi, saying she remembered everything, I think you are full of, well, lies to be PC. I don't think this story would have stayed quiet this long if Jennifer/Christi and Jonathan/Bobby knew the truth all along. There are major holes in the Maple story, and they know it. That is why they sling mud and insults.
Regardless of who thinks who did what to who, this is what we all know for sure:
1) The Baskin children were kidnapped by their grandparents. No matter how you slice it, that is the legal definition for what they did. Mark and Debbie had legal custody, Sandra and Marvin took the kids and did not allow them to come back. That is kidnapping and a felony.
2) The Baskin, Mark and Debbie, were cleared by a court of law of any wrongdoing and were even allowed to adopt a child. You can smear people and make accusations all day long, but the fact of the matter is they were proven innocent and there is no evidence to the contrary.
All indications are that "Jennifer" and "Jonathan" thought that Sandra and Marvin were their parents, so whoever posted claiming to know Jennifer/Christi, saying she remembered everything, I think you are full of, well, lies to be PC. I don't think this story would have stayed quiet this long if Jennifer/Christi and Jonathan/Bobby knew the truth all along. There are major holes in the Maple story, and they know it. That is why they sling mud and insults.
By: lombo77 on 2/6/09
SparkofSanity,
You're dead wrong... Jenn knew that it was her grandfather... She told me that he was her grandfather but she considered him her dad... end of discussion..
I have many memories of when i was 8 and much younger.
Are you saying that the courts never get it wrong? Really? Now I'm not saying this is the case, but if they were my grandchildren and I was certain that they were being abused in any way shape or form and the courts didn't do anything... I'd take'em and run too. Point being, always putting the best interest of the kids first. As a grandparent I'd be willing to face the music later down the road if i was able to save and raise my grandchildren in a healthy environment.
Again, there are more then a few parents who think that is they just "love" their kids it's enough. News flash: WRONG! Children need a healthy home with parents that are involved in their lives and inspire them. I don't care how hard the times are these are things that can happen regardless of jobs and money issues. Parents need to learn how to buck up and put their kids first. You chose to have them, you lose the choice of putting yourself first. I'm sick of all the crap parents in this country. Some folks should lose the right to have kids if they clearly screw up so badly with ones they have....
SparkofSanity,
You're dead wrong... Jenn knew that it was her grandfather... She told me that he was her grandfather but she considered him her dad... end of discussion..
I have many memories of when i was 8 and much younger.
Are you saying that the courts never get it wrong? Really? Now I'm not saying this is the case, but if they were my grandchildren and I was certain that they were being abused in any way shape or form and the courts didn't do anything... I'd take'em and run too. Point being, always putting the best interest of the kids first. As a grandparent I'd be willing to face the music later down the road if i was able to save and raise my grandchildren in a healthy environment.
Again, there are more then a few parents who think that is they just "love" their kids it's enough. News flash: WRONG! Children need a healthy home with parents that are involved in their lives and inspire them. I don't care how hard the times are these are things that can happen regardless of jobs and money issues. Parents need to learn how to buck up and put their kids first. You chose to have them, you lose the choice of putting yourself first. I'm sick of all the crap parents in this country. Some folks should lose the right to have kids if they clearly screw up so badly with ones they have....
By: SparkOfSanity on 2/6/09
Oooo.. i hit a nerve apparently!
Indications = the police reports, the interviews with people who knew Marvin, the hundreds of articles being written. If what lombo says is true, don't you think a news agency would have eaten that up already?
Also, I know this may be going over many people's heads, but as a child you accept the reality in which you are confronted with. Children at that age don't physically have the mental capacity to understand more than a couple of abstract ideas, if any, so it is extremely possible that they were conditioned to believe that Marvin and Sandra were their parents and to forget about their past. I remember stuff in bits and pieces from that age, but if you have ever studied the subject, like I have for years, you would know that memory is easily affected and altered by the power of suggestion, especially at a vulnerable age like 7 and 8.
And you still can't refute my two points, and you won't be able to: Marvin and Sandra Maple are GUILTY of kidnapping, and the Baskin parents were cleared in a court of law of wrongdoing. Do courts get things wrong? Yes, but this case has been under more scrutiny than most, and for all evidence to point towards no abuse, it is hard for you Maple defenders to be taken seriously when you say otherwise.
Oooo.. i hit a nerve apparently!
Indications = the police reports, the interviews with people who knew Marvin, the hundreds of articles being written. If what lombo says is true, don't you think a news agency would have eaten that up already?
Also, I know this may be going over many people's heads, but as a child you accept the reality in which you are confronted with. Children at that age don't physically have the mental capacity to understand more than a couple of abstract ideas, if any, so it is extremely possible that they were conditioned to believe that Marvin and Sandra were their parents and to forget about their past. I remember stuff in bits and pieces from that age, but if you have ever studied the subject, like I have for years, you would know that memory is easily affected and altered by the power of suggestion, especially at a vulnerable age like 7 and 8.
And you still can't refute my two points, and you won't be able to: Marvin and Sandra Maple are GUILTY of kidnapping, and the Baskin parents were cleared in a court of law of wrongdoing. Do courts get things wrong? Yes, but this case has been under more scrutiny than most, and for all evidence to point towards no abuse, it is hard for you Maple defenders to be taken seriously when you say otherwise.
By: eagle50 on 2/6/09
Lost one, you are welcomed. I haved prayed about this many times. I loved my grandparents with all my heart and would have went anywhere with them and they helped me to grow up to be the person I am today. My Granddaddy taught me to think for myself. The Maples kidnapped the two children. I believe everyone agrees that is a "fact". Why they did it, hopefully will be disclosed and either proven truthful or be proven false. They robbed their entire family of their love and support for 20 years. They robbed the kids of family ties to cousins, aunts, uncles on both sides of the family and they robbed Michael of his siblings. They robbed their children to grieve for their mother (Sandra's) passing or to say a final goodbye to her. How sad is that? Do I feel sorry for Marvin, no. I feel sorry for the kids. They had no say in the matter 20 years ago. I really hope that as a parent, Debbie and Mark can have a relationship with ALL their children. I hope Bobby and Christi can stop living as other people, and take back the name they were given at birth. Afterall, that's the name that God has written in the book of life. I'm not related to anyone in either family, but common sense could help in this matter now and 20 years ago.
Lost one, you are welcomed. I haved prayed about this many times. I loved my grandparents with all my heart and would have went anywhere with them and they helped me to grow up to be the person I am today. My Granddaddy taught me to think for myself. The Maples kidnapped the two children. I believe everyone agrees that is a "fact". Why they did it, hopefully will be disclosed and either proven truthful or be proven false. They robbed their entire family of their love and support for 20 years. They robbed the kids of family ties to cousins, aunts, uncles on both sides of the family and they robbed Michael of his siblings. They robbed their children to grieve for their mother (Sandra's) passing or to say a final goodbye to her. How sad is that? Do I feel sorry for Marvin, no. I feel sorry for the kids. They had no say in the matter 20 years ago. I really hope that as a parent, Debbie and Mark can have a relationship with ALL their children. I hope Bobby and Christi can stop living as other people, and take back the name they were given at birth. Afterall, that's the name that God has written in the book of life. I'm not related to anyone in either family, but common sense could help in this matter now and 20 years ago.
By: vdanr on 2/6/09
InTheMaplesDefense wrote:
"to vdanr...they were in contact with NO ONE from the family, they have been lost to us for the last 20 years, so take your accusations and shove them!"
LifesRealDeal wrote this on 2/5/09
"I'm an acquaintance of Jennifer's and it's serious business for the Maples to just cut off contact with their own daughter, Baskin, so they had good reason to flee with their grandchildren, Jennifer and Jonathan.
No brainwashing was involved. Jennifer remembers the abuse they suffered in detail and has absolutely no interest in seeing her parents ever again. It's from her own personal memories, before leaving with the Maples in 89, that the abuse memories derive."
I agree with SparkofSanity. We can only base assumptions off of what we have read. I don't know any of you and I don't know them, but I do know what kidnapping is!!!!!! InTheMaplesDefense - you say they lived normal, productive lives but I disagree. Why change their whole identity if there was no wrong doing?
Even if "the system" was wrong, the decision that there was no evidence of abuse is still final unless there is evidence to change that decision.
My prayers are with the whole family and to all others who are on the outside pretending to know the situation, I pray for you too. Keep your head up TheLostOne. Just as your parents faith has sustained them all these years, yours must do the same.
InTheMaplesDefense wrote:
"to vdanr...they were in contact with NO ONE from the family, they have been lost to us for the last 20 years, so take your accusations and shove them!"
LifesRealDeal wrote this on 2/5/09
"I'm an acquaintance of Jennifer's and it's serious business for the Maples to just cut off contact with their own daughter, Baskin, so they had good reason to flee with their grandchildren, Jennifer and Jonathan.
No brainwashing was involved. Jennifer remembers the abuse they suffered in detail and has absolutely no interest in seeing her parents ever again. It's from her own personal memories, before leaving with the Maples in 89, that the abuse memories derive."
I agree with SparkofSanity. We can only base assumptions off of what we have read. I don't know any of you and I don't know them, but I do know what kidnapping is!!!!!! InTheMaplesDefense - you say they lived normal, productive lives but I disagree. Why change their whole identity if there was no wrong doing?
Even if "the system" was wrong, the decision that there was no evidence of abuse is still final unless there is evidence to change that decision.
My prayers are with the whole family and to all others who are on the outside pretending to know the situation, I pray for you too. Keep your head up TheLostOne. Just as your parents faith has sustained them all these years, yours must do the same.
By: horselightning on 2/6/09
Another thing about Lifes Real Deal. Jennifer/Christie told the police she dose not remember anything. Life's Real Deal is saying she does, a complete contradiction.
As for The Maples Defense the more you talk the more you make me believe The Maples side of the family knew were they wwere all the time/ Aiding and Abedding is a very serious offense.
I think these two people need to stop while their a head. Their just mnaking it hardewr on Jonathon/Bobby, Christy/Jennifer, Michael and Paul.
Another thing about Lifes Real Deal. Jennifer/Christie told the police she dose not remember anything. Life's Real Deal is saying she does, a complete contradiction.
As for The Maples Defense the more you talk the more you make me believe The Maples side of the family knew were they wwere all the time/ Aiding and Abedding is a very serious offense.
I think these two people need to stop while their a head. Their just mnaking it hardewr on Jonathon/Bobby, Christy/Jennifer, Michael and Paul.
By: SparkOfSanity on 2/6/09
Wow... MaplesDefense, are you really giving a grammar lecture amidst all of this? And are you really trying to elicit pity for the Maples? No one thinks Christi and Bobby are enjoying this, that was never in question. The reason the Maples are the only people they have known for the past twenty years is because they were given no other choice! When given an option of one, it is hard to pick something else!
Wow... MaplesDefense, are you really giving a grammar lecture amidst all of this? And are you really trying to elicit pity for the Maples? No one thinks Christi and Bobby are enjoying this, that was never in question. The reason the Maples are the only people they have known for the past twenty years is because they were given no other choice! When given an option of one, it is hard to pick something else!
By: MomInPA on 2/6/09
InTheMaplesDefense
A typical tactic, when there is nothing defensible to say, just criticize the other person, in this case, their post. Another typical tactic, when there is nothing defensible to say, threaten..
Since you are threatening Libel and Defamation, I thought *I* would define them for you, because you seem to be confused.
Libel: An untruthful statement about a person, published in writing or through broadcast media, that injures the person's reputation or standing in the community
Defamation: A false statement that injures someone's reputation and exposes him to public contempt, hatred, ridicule, or condemnation.
The exact quote is “the more you talk the more you make me believe The Maples side of the family knew were they wwere all the time/ Aiding and Abedding is a very serious offense”
A couple of points to remember before you contact your lawyer ;o), 1)The person never said that you were aiding and abetting, but rather that the more you posted the more they BELIEVED that. That would be their understanding of the evidence set forth. 2) since one can ONLY assume your real name is not “InTheMaplesDefense”, there can be no libel OR defamation because you are not identified in any.
Those little things being cleared up; while I might have been sympathetic to what you were saying, there is an obvious credibility issue now. You have not been able to deny the facts that were stated 1) They children were kidnapped 2) the Baskins were cleared of all charges brought against them. Instead of making your point, you decided to pick apart the spelling of another poster. All that shows is that you really had nothing you could add to the conversation, so instead you would try to make someone else look and/or feel stupid. I have no problem hearing what lombo77 says and believing that that is exactly how she understands the situation. However, I would suggest that you either post in a way that contributes to the understanding of all reading, or stop identifying yourself with the family you wish to defend.
InTheMaplesDefense
A typical tactic, when there is nothing defensible to say, just criticize the other person, in this case, their post. Another typical tactic, when there is nothing defensible to say, threaten..
Since you are threatening Libel and Defamation, I thought *I* would define them for you, because you seem to be confused.
Libel: An untruthful statement about a person, published in writing or through broadcast media, that injures the person's reputation or standing in the community
Defamation: A false statement that injures someone's reputation and exposes him to public contempt, hatred, ridicule, or condemnation.
The exact quote is “the more you talk the more you make me believe The Maples side of the family knew were they wwere all the time/ Aiding and Abedding is a very serious offense”
A couple of points to remember before you contact your lawyer ;o), 1)The person never said that you were aiding and abetting, but rather that the more you posted the more they BELIEVED that. That would be their understanding of the evidence set forth. 2) since one can ONLY assume your real name is not “InTheMaplesDefense”, there can be no libel OR defamation because you are not identified in any.
Those little things being cleared up; while I might have been sympathetic to what you were saying, there is an obvious credibility issue now. You have not been able to deny the facts that were stated 1) They children were kidnapped 2) the Baskins were cleared of all charges brought against them. Instead of making your point, you decided to pick apart the spelling of another poster. All that shows is that you really had nothing you could add to the conversation, so instead you would try to make someone else look and/or feel stupid. I have no problem hearing what lombo77 says and believing that that is exactly how she understands the situation. However, I would suggest that you either post in a way that contributes to the understanding of all reading, or stop identifying yourself with the family you wish to defend.
By: reservingjudgment on 2/6/09
Just because the official inquiry into the abuse charges led to a recommendation that the parents retain custody doesn't mean this abuse did not occur. Abuse is done in secret. It is often unreported and even less often prosecuted. The scars left are permanent, but you can't examine emotional injuries. I am interested in what Jennifer and Jonathan have to say. I would also like to hear Marvin Maple's story.
Just because the official inquiry into the abuse charges led to a recommendation that the parents retain custody doesn't mean this abuse did not occur. Abuse is done in secret. It is often unreported and even less often prosecuted. The scars left are permanent, but you can't examine emotional injuries. I am interested in what Jennifer and Jonathan have to say. I would also like to hear Marvin Maple's story.
By: Sameera on 2/6/09
To MomInPia,
Now you see why I don't let myself get drawn into fights with the Maple family over the case anymore. Better to sit back and let them speak for themselves, IMO.
To MomInPia,
Now you see why I don't let myself get drawn into fights with the Maple family over the case anymore. Better to sit back and let them speak for themselves, IMO.
By: horselightning on 2/6/09
MomInpa-thank you for saying what i was going to say. You are right I never accused anyone of anything I simply asked a question. At the risk of putting myself into a fued I don't care about. My heart and prayers are with christy/jennifer, bobby/jonathon, micahel, and paul. I feel they are the most important right now. These recent events must have shook them up right now.
MomInpa-thank you for saying what i was going to say. You are right I never accused anyone of anything I simply asked a question. At the risk of putting myself into a fued I don't care about. My heart and prayers are with christy/jennifer, bobby/jonathon, micahel, and paul. I feel they are the most important right now. These recent events must have shook them up right now.
By: 2sides2everystory on 2/7/09
As sad and tragic as this whole situation is, I think it is a mistake to make Mr. Maple out to be a monster. There is no doubt that he and his wife did not handle this matter as they should have all those years ago. However, I think it is clear to any open minded person that they truly loved these children and, in their minds at least, did what they thought was in their best interest at the time. The fact that "the children" have turned out to be happy, healthy, productive adults should count for something. I firmly believe that if contacting their parents had been important to them all those years ago, they would have found a way to do so. They had been apart from their parents and younger brother for somewhere between 1 1/2 to 2 years before the abduction even took place. 1 1/2 to 2 years is a big chunk of a 7 or 8 year olds life. It is likely that they just weren't that bonded with their parents by the time they were kidnapped.
As sad and tragic as this whole situation is, I think it is a mistake to make Mr. Maple out to be a monster. There is no doubt that he and his wife did not handle this matter as they should have all those years ago. However, I think it is clear to any open minded person that they truly loved these children and, in their minds at least, did what they thought was in their best interest at the time. The fact that "the children" have turned out to be happy, healthy, productive adults should count for something. I firmly believe that if contacting their parents had been important to them all those years ago, they would have found a way to do so. They had been apart from their parents and younger brother for somewhere between 1 1/2 to 2 years before the abduction even took place. 1 1/2 to 2 years is a big chunk of a 7 or 8 year olds life. It is likely that they just weren't that bonded with their parents by the time they were kidnapped.
By: callieme on 2/7/09
Such a tragic story for the parents and the children. I'm glad they caught the old man. Innocent people don't have to run like this.
Praying for the family members during this difficult time. I hope Christy and Bobby will reason through this. It'll be hard after 20 years of the cards they were dealt.
Maple needs to be put away for what little life he has left.
Such a tragic story for the parents and the children. I'm glad they caught the old man. Innocent people don't have to run like this.
Praying for the family members during this difficult time. I hope Christy and Bobby will reason through this. It'll be hard after 20 years of the cards they were dealt.
Maple needs to be put away for what little life he has left.
By: eagle50 on 2/7/09
"hoping that they have a stroke like Marvin did" PER Inthemaplesdefense
I have read stuff from the San Jose paper, the DNJ and the Post, but no where have I read that Marvin had a stroke. When did Marvin have a stroke? I'm sure the police department would like to know when you had knowledge of that information.
"hoping that they have a stroke like Marvin did" PER Inthemaplesdefense
I have read stuff from the San Jose paper, the DNJ and the Post, but no where have I read that Marvin had a stroke. When did Marvin have a stroke? I'm sure the police department would like to know when you had knowledge of that information.
By: MomInPA on 2/7/09
Eagle50, I heard on the syndicated new stations, the first day this story ran, that Marvin had a stroke (and recovered) a couple years ago and that his wife died several years ago. I had wondered if they were around the same time... Anyway, just wanting to say that that piece of information was in the news either Late Tuesday night or early Wednesday morning.
Eagle50, I heard on the syndicated new stations, the first day this story ran, that Marvin had a stroke (and recovered) a couple years ago and that his wife died several years ago. I had wondered if they were around the same time... Anyway, just wanting to say that that piece of information was in the news either Late Tuesday night or early Wednesday morning.
By: motherof4 on 2/7/09
My prayers are for everyone hurting from this. Do the maples have any other children other than the mother of their grandchildren?
My prayers are for everyone hurting from this. Do the maples have any other children other than the mother of their grandchildren?
By: SOUTHSIDECA on 2/7/09
Marvin did have a stroke, and he was told he was never coming home from the hospital. All of a sudden he got better and was able to go home. Sandra Maple had to teach him how to do math, what is left and right etc...That woman brought him almost all the way back to a full recovery. Marvin says she was a wonderful woman, that she also gave the kids a better education than any public school would have--they both went to college. He speaks very highly of her and I know that he misses her very much.
Marvin did have a stroke, and he was told he was never coming home from the hospital. All of a sudden he got better and was able to go home. Sandra Maple had to teach him how to do math, what is left and right etc...That woman brought him almost all the way back to a full recovery. Marvin says she was a wonderful woman, that she also gave the kids a better education than any public school would have--they both went to college. He speaks very highly of her and I know that he misses her very much.
By: SOUTHSIDECA on 2/7/09
I saw John (Marvin) just about every other day for the past 4 years. I just don't see how you can say such horrible things about him. The person you describe is not the person we know.
I saw John (Marvin) just about every other day for the past 4 years. I just don't see how you can say such horrible things about him. The person you describe is not the person we know.
By: Mother_Grandmother on 2/7/09
My question is what about Michael? As a Grandparent, if I "knew" that one of my grandsons was abused, I would have gone to the moon and back to "save" the other one too! I do not believe that there ever was abuse by the Baskin's, so much so, that I let my son spend seversl nights in their home having slumber parties with Paul! I hope that Christy and Bobby will be able to get find their true memories of thier biological family and remember how much love was given to them by their parents, Mark and Debbie. I believe that any child who is taken from their family is mentally abused by their kidnappers to "forget" about their past life. As to why Jennifer and Jonathon did not contact their biological parents when they became of age, would you believe what you were told as a child for 10 years or better? Most children would. To the Baskins, all of us in Florida are sending your family our prayers, may all 6 of you find peace and happiness in the very near future. To Jennifer/Christy and Jonathon/Bobby, I would hope that, without the media around, you would allow your parents to have a conversation with you to hear their side of the story. Keep in mind that there are always two sides to each story! God Bless.
My question is what about Michael? As a Grandparent, if I "knew" that one of my grandsons was abused, I would have gone to the moon and back to "save" the other one too! I do not believe that there ever was abuse by the Baskin's, so much so, that I let my son spend seversl nights in their home having slumber parties with Paul! I hope that Christy and Bobby will be able to get find their true memories of thier biological family and remember how much love was given to them by their parents, Mark and Debbie. I believe that any child who is taken from their family is mentally abused by their kidnappers to "forget" about their past life. As to why Jennifer and Jonathon did not contact their biological parents when they became of age, would you believe what you were told as a child for 10 years or better? Most children would. To the Baskins, all of us in Florida are sending your family our prayers, may all 6 of you find peace and happiness in the very near future. To Jennifer/Christy and Jonathon/Bobby, I would hope that, without the media around, you would allow your parents to have a conversation with you to hear their side of the story. Keep in mind that there are always two sides to each story! God Bless.
By: eagle50 on 2/7/09
Thanks MominPA, I didn't have time to watch all the news report, but the ones I caught didn't mention that. Thanks
Thanks MominPA, I didn't have time to watch all the news report, but the ones I caught didn't mention that. Thanks
By: SparkOfSanity on 2/7/09
I'd like to point out that not once did I ever wish harm to anyone, never did I accuse Marvin or Sandra Maple of being "bad" people, and I have not stated anything that was not factual. I can't help it if other people on places where I post are mean, but I have done nothing but state the obvious. I'd like you, MaplesDefense, to show me where I have been malicious or hurtful, except for where the truth it hurtful.
Just thought I'd throw that out there, since people are accusing other of libel.
I'd like to point out that not once did I ever wish harm to anyone, never did I accuse Marvin or Sandra Maple of being "bad" people, and I have not stated anything that was not factual. I can't help it if other people on places where I post are mean, but I have done nothing but state the obvious. I'd like you, MaplesDefense, to show me where I have been malicious or hurtful, except for where the truth it hurtful.
Just thought I'd throw that out there, since people are accusing other of libel.
By: horselightning on 2/7/09
The question everyone asks about this case is why didnt they take michael with them? Simple it was only bobby and christie who were living with their grandparents not michael. it was bobby and christie who the maples formed a somewhat parental attachment too through all the time they children stayed with them. the maples didnt have that same bond with michael that they had with christie and bobby because he hadnt been staying with them during that time.
i did read somewhere that the maples at the time they took the kids had college age daughter , who came home to find thme gone. Can't say if it is true or not though.
The question everyone asks about this case is why didnt they take michael with them? Simple it was only bobby and christie who were living with their grandparents not michael. it was bobby and christie who the maples formed a somewhat parental attachment too through all the time they children stayed with them. the maples didnt have that same bond with michael that they had with christie and bobby because he hadnt been staying with them during that time.
i did read somewhere that the maples at the time they took the kids had college age daughter , who came home to find thme gone. Can't say if it is true or not though.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/7/09
I think Marvin Maple should go to jail for the rest of his life. He could not even send his daughter a picture of her children? He would not even let her know if their alive? He could have at least sent a note from a mail forwarding service. When those kids became 18 they became adults and they were out of reach from their supposedly "abusive" parents. He could of fixed this a long time a go. Also, why on earth would he tell people he was a wanted man and talk about that damning looking San Diego website, to a bunch of people who have children and grandchildren of their own? Would anyone here do that if you were innocent, heck no you wouldn't, you would not utter a peep. It wasn't alcohol talking either, the guy drinks juice. I think Marvin knows he is getting old and he wanted to get caught so his kids could eventually have some family connections after he is gone. Deep down I bet he knows he is wrong and he subconsciously sabotaged himself. Nice guy? DESPICABLE is more like it. Yeah, and why didn't he save Michael ? The grandparents grew attached to the kids and decided to keep them for themselves.
I think Marvin Maple should go to jail for the rest of his life. He could not even send his daughter a picture of her children? He would not even let her know if their alive? He could have at least sent a note from a mail forwarding service. When those kids became 18 they became adults and they were out of reach from their supposedly "abusive" parents. He could of fixed this a long time a go. Also, why on earth would he tell people he was a wanted man and talk about that damning looking San Diego website, to a bunch of people who have children and grandchildren of their own? Would anyone here do that if you were innocent, heck no you wouldn't, you would not utter a peep. It wasn't alcohol talking either, the guy drinks juice. I think Marvin knows he is getting old and he wanted to get caught so his kids could eventually have some family connections after he is gone. Deep down I bet he knows he is wrong and he subconsciously sabotaged himself. Nice guy? DESPICABLE is more like it. Yeah, and why didn't he save Michael ? The grandparents grew attached to the kids and decided to keep them for themselves.
By: stuart on 2/7/09
What these kidnapping grandparents have is "Munchausen by Proxy syndrome". It is caused when a woman needs to feel important by manufacutring illnesses in her children, soemtimes even poisining them in order to appear nurturing and selfless when she puts on a show of caring for the children she is secretly injecting with feces or whatever to keep them bedridden. It often takes the form of false sexual allegations as well. The enabling men involved are called "inverted narcissists". The man who is manipulated into assisting in the crime doesn't realize what he is doing (he can be a doctor or a policeman as well. The husbands are often in the military/air-force for some reason) He so much wants to feel heroic, to help the "Damsel in Distress", that no one can ever reason with him. Although he may seem less guilty, he is just as selfish in exploiting the children for his narcissistic needs to feel important. Even when these women see themselves on video doing these deeds they will never admit it. Their personalities are too split in two. It's extremely hard for the male co-conspirator to admit it either, but he can when faced with video evidence, which is rarely caught on hidden camera. They will have many naive supporters beacuse they overcompensate by putting on a show of being like Mother Teresa in charity and goodness.
When "Maples" wife died, literally a part of him died with her. He would not have had the inherant ability to twist reality on his own, she would keep his mind warped. Their daughter Debbie, if she looks back at HER childhood will likely remember her mother isolating the father from his family and friends as well. Quandary: My friends don't belive my stories. Solution: Either stop lying, or 2) continuously rotate in a new group of friends. Its a big world and you will never run out of people who will buy into BS., and you just loose those who won't.
The child victim intuitively knows how to manipulate the mother into tranforming into "mother Teresa" personality, from the alternative "Hell on Wheels" personality. If the child acts sick when the mother is in a stormy mood he will feel safe in bed (and she wont have to drug him into being her prop for the role she wishes to play that day to boost her weak ego)
The Grandmother, Mrs. "Maples" upon becoming a fugitive would never have expressed the full potential of her evil because she was always skating on thin ice. From that point on she wouldn't have made too many waves.
What these kidnapping grandparents have is "Munchausen by Proxy syndrome". It is caused when a woman needs to feel important by manufacutring illnesses in her children, soemtimes even poisining them in order to appear nurturing and selfless when she puts on a show of caring for the children she is secretly injecting with feces or whatever to keep them bedridden. It often takes the form of false sexual allegations as well. The enabling men involved are called "inverted narcissists". The man who is manipulated into assisting in the crime doesn't realize what he is doing (he can be a doctor or a policeman as well. The husbands are often in the military/air-force for some reason) He so much wants to feel heroic, to help the "Damsel in Distress", that no one can ever reason with him. Although he may seem less guilty, he is just as selfish in exploiting the children for his narcissistic needs to feel important. Even when these women see themselves on video doing these deeds they will never admit it. Their personalities are too split in two. It's extremely hard for the male co-conspirator to admit it either, but he can when faced with video evidence, which is rarely caught on hidden camera. They will have many naive supporters beacuse they overcompensate by putting on a show of being like Mother Teresa in charity and goodness.
When "Maples" wife died, literally a part of him died with her. He would not have had the inherant ability to twist reality on his own, she would keep his mind warped. Their daughter Debbie, if she looks back at HER childhood will likely remember her mother isolating the father from his family and friends as well. Quandary: My friends don't belive my stories. Solution: Either stop lying, or 2) continuously rotate in a new group of friends. Its a big world and you will never run out of people who will buy into BS., and you just loose those who won't.
The child victim intuitively knows how to manipulate the mother into tranforming into "mother Teresa" personality, from the alternative "Hell on Wheels" personality. If the child acts sick when the mother is in a stormy mood he will feel safe in bed (and she wont have to drug him into being her prop for the role she wishes to play that day to boost her weak ego)
The Grandmother, Mrs. "Maples" upon becoming a fugitive would never have expressed the full potential of her evil because she was always skating on thin ice. From that point on she wouldn't have made too many waves.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/7/09
Mom and daughter had a power struggle (I'm taking my kids with me) and this was the ultimate payback.
I remember a case a few years a go, some guy in the North East took his toddler daughters with him and told them mama is dead. The guy was charming but a pathological liar, always telling people he was somebody rich or important (consultant of the President...etc.). Anyway they eventually caught him but it was too late, the daughters would have nothing to do with their mother because they believed this sociopaths lies. I remember the lady saying she wishes her ex-husband had murdered her instead of doing what he did.
Mom and daughter had a power struggle (I'm taking my kids with me) and this was the ultimate payback.
I remember a case a few years a go, some guy in the North East took his toddler daughters with him and told them mama is dead. The guy was charming but a pathological liar, always telling people he was somebody rich or important (consultant of the President...etc.). Anyway they eventually caught him but it was too late, the daughters would have nothing to do with their mother because they believed this sociopaths lies. I remember the lady saying she wishes her ex-husband had murdered her instead of doing what he did.
By: Sameera on 2/7/09
The Unsolved Mysteries segment on the Baskin case said that during the custody battle both the Baskin parents and Maple grandparents were ordered to undergo psychiatric assessements. I would love to know what the results were and what bearing they have on the case.
The Unsolved Mysteries segment on the Baskin case said that during the custody battle both the Baskin parents and Maple grandparents were ordered to undergo psychiatric assessements. I would love to know what the results were and what bearing they have on the case.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/7/09
Also, about the abuse allegations. It's the job of grandparents to be laid back and doting. Most of us here have had parents who were strict when they were young, especially if your the first or second child. By the time other siblings arrive, there is usually a marked drop in expectations from the formerly strict parents. After time parents mellow out... So it wouldn't surprise me if a bunch of Southern Baptist seminarians were a little too strict, and the doting grandparents could seem like real good guys in comparison (that's their job). Sadly these kids were deprived of the normal experience of watching their parents mellow out as they age and they would be easy pickings for manipulation by the grandparents.
I agree Stuart.
Also, about the abuse allegations. It's the job of grandparents to be laid back and doting. Most of us here have had parents who were strict when they were young, especially if your the first or second child. By the time other siblings arrive, there is usually a marked drop in expectations from the formerly strict parents. After time parents mellow out... So it wouldn't surprise me if a bunch of Southern Baptist seminarians were a little too strict, and the doting grandparents could seem like real good guys in comparison (that's their job). Sadly these kids were deprived of the normal experience of watching their parents mellow out as they age and they would be easy pickings for manipulation by the grandparents.
I agree Stuart.
By: stuart on 2/7/09
To InThisTwilight, MSP (Munchausen by Proxy) people are on the surface the most honorable respectable, kindest and most loving people anyone has ever known. So unimpeachable that we all trusted one once and got burned. She was officially diagnosed by numerous experts as well. I therefore cannot give any credibility to anyone firsthand account, no matter how impressed you are by appearances. There is nothing you can see firsthand that a good actor couldn't exponentially embelish to make even more convincing than a normal person.
To InThisTwilight, MSP (Munchausen by Proxy) people are on the surface the most honorable respectable, kindest and most loving people anyone has ever known. So unimpeachable that we all trusted one once and got burned. She was officially diagnosed by numerous experts as well. I therefore cannot give any credibility to anyone firsthand account, no matter how impressed you are by appearances. There is nothing you can see firsthand that a good actor couldn't exponentially embelish to make even more convincing than a normal person.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/7/09
Not to anybody in particular but I think there is a massive number of Maple's shills out there. Their everywhere, a pretty nifty accomplishment concerning how incognito this guy and his wife were.
A lot of these posters are not who they say they are IMHO.
Not to anybody in particular but I think there is a massive number of Maple's shills out there. Their everywhere, a pretty nifty accomplishment concerning how incognito this guy and his wife were.
A lot of these posters are not who they say they are IMHO.
By: stuart on 2/7/09
To InThisTwilight, If the courts and child therapists said that the accusations were unfounded, then guess what? That makes their dillusions of sexual molestation a sexual version of MSBP. No if's and's or but's about it. And if you look up MSBP you will see that this illness is exibited by uppercrust women of status. Women who know how to make an impression.
To InThisTwilight, If the courts and child therapists said that the accusations were unfounded, then guess what? That makes their dillusions of sexual molestation a sexual version of MSBP. No if's and's or but's about it. And if you look up MSBP you will see that this illness is exibited by uppercrust women of status. Women who know how to make an impression.
By: Mother_Grandmother on 2/7/09
To InThisTwilight: I know Debbie and she is not mean or hateful. I don't know how I would have handled not seeing my babies for 20 years, how could any Mother live without her babies? She has forgiven her Father, but does not condone what he did.
To InThisTwilight: I know Debbie and she is not mean or hateful. I don't know how I would have handled not seeing my babies for 20 years, how could any Mother live without her babies? She has forgiven her Father, but does not condone what he did.
By: titansno11 on 2/7/09
I can tell you this from my own experince, I was sexually abused as a child and its something I will never forget and i was 6 when it started and my abuse was by a family member and i feel that these kids know what happened to them and are the lucky ones because someone cared enough about them to get them out of a bad place, also an abuser lies and sometimes can make other people belive he is a good person, in fact the child never gets over what happened to them and no they dont forget ever
I can tell you this from my own experince, I was sexually abused as a child and its something I will never forget and i was 6 when it started and my abuse was by a family member and i feel that these kids know what happened to them and are the lucky ones because someone cared enough about them to get them out of a bad place, also an abuser lies and sometimes can make other people belive he is a good person, in fact the child never gets over what happened to them and no they dont forget ever
By: stuart on 2/7/09
To InTheMaplesDefense and others, Bobby and Christie had been living at Grandparents for the good part of a year and the police and thereapists still couldn't get a decent accusation out of these TWO kids when they weren't near the intimidating influence of the grandparents. Seven and eight is a far cry from three or four years old. At later ages they just need to speak up if people are trying to help them. Those who still refuse to believe that nothing sinister is going on might have there own issues.
To InTheMaplesDefense and others, Bobby and Christie had been living at Grandparents for the good part of a year and the police and thereapists still couldn't get a decent accusation out of these TWO kids when they weren't near the intimidating influence of the grandparents. Seven and eight is a far cry from three or four years old. At later ages they just need to speak up if people are trying to help them. Those who still refuse to believe that nothing sinister is going on might have there own issues.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/7/09
I have no doubt that Marvin is very likable.
They have shown numerous bar patrons comment on him being a great guy, saying he must have had a good reason....etc. He is obviously quite the schmoozer! I am sure if he ends up in prison he will win over many friends in a short time.
If someone has a mean mother, you still don't get the right to kidnap her child. If something happened concerning Marks dad? It still gives you no right to deprive Mark from having any contact with his own child for LIFE. This went on too long, this man Marvin stole something that did not belong to him. He stole away a parental relationship and locked things uptight in the perceptions of a seven year old mind. Honor your Father and Mother. Marvin stole that relationship and appropriated it for himself. The fact that the parents were not even allowed to know if the children were alive ?
Yeah, and don't forget, the grandparents were well aware, when the truth started to come out concerning the vast majority of those fanciful stories about Satanic ritual abuse/repressed memories... A Big pile of hooey. Marvin won, the kids are grown up now and call him Dad. If he is punished, the kids will resent the true parents.
EVIL.
I have no doubt that Marvin is very likable.
They have shown numerous bar patrons comment on him being a great guy, saying he must have had a good reason....etc. He is obviously quite the schmoozer! I am sure if he ends up in prison he will win over many friends in a short time.
If someone has a mean mother, you still don't get the right to kidnap her child. If something happened concerning Marks dad? It still gives you no right to deprive Mark from having any contact with his own child for LIFE. This went on too long, this man Marvin stole something that did not belong to him. He stole away a parental relationship and locked things uptight in the perceptions of a seven year old mind. Honor your Father and Mother. Marvin stole that relationship and appropriated it for himself. The fact that the parents were not even allowed to know if the children were alive ?
Yeah, and don't forget, the grandparents were well aware, when the truth started to come out concerning the vast majority of those fanciful stories about Satanic ritual abuse/repressed memories... A Big pile of hooey. Marvin won, the kids are grown up now and call him Dad. If he is punished, the kids will resent the true parents.
EVIL.
By: Sameera on 2/8/09
To Motherof4,
To answer your question, the Maples have two other daughters. Debbie is the eldest.
To Motherof4,
To answer your question, the Maples have two other daughters. Debbie is the eldest.
By: gatorsmom on 2/8/09
I can't wait till we hear the kids story, at 7 and 8 they have knowledge of what was happening, they are adults now and had plenty of time and opportunity to "get away" make contact with parents etc. why they did not do so only THEY know. It does seem that the kids did grow up to be happy,educated adults and I wish them the best.
I can't wait till we hear the kids story, at 7 and 8 they have knowledge of what was happening, they are adults now and had plenty of time and opportunity to "get away" make contact with parents etc. why they did not do so only THEY know. It does seem that the kids did grow up to be happy,educated adults and I wish them the best.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/8/09
Sameera, were these other Maple daughters (Debbie's sisters)contacted by their mother or father over the last twenty years when they were on the run? If not then it looks like Stuart is right on this one.
Grandma in that case was mentally ill, fabricating fanciful stories and getting to be the hero. Marvin was just a weak enabler?
http://kidshealth.org/parent/general/sick/munchausen.html
Sameera, were these other Maple daughters (Debbie's sisters)contacted by their mother or father over the last twenty years when they were on the run? If not then it looks like Stuart is right on this one.
Grandma in that case was mentally ill, fabricating fanciful stories and getting to be the hero. Marvin was just a weak enabler?
http://kidshealth.org/parent/general/sick/munchausen.html
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/8/09
gatorsmom, the kids got use to living with their doting grandparents for almost a year. They loved them, they would not want to see them in jail or be responsible for putting in motion events that would hurt them. Plus, look at those pictures... Very young, no match for friendly manipulative adults. Now the bill is coming due. The grandparents are on their way out... only one left. The kids have been cut off from cousins, siblings, parents, uncles, aunts. Relationships that take many years too be meaningful. Of course the kids will have no idea what they are missing (and down play it), since all these peoples are now defacto strangers.
This was a horrific crime. By the way, the neighbors are saying Marvin was a wonderful guy.
gatorsmom, the kids got use to living with their doting grandparents for almost a year. They loved them, they would not want to see them in jail or be responsible for putting in motion events that would hurt them. Plus, look at those pictures... Very young, no match for friendly manipulative adults. Now the bill is coming due. The grandparents are on their way out... only one left. The kids have been cut off from cousins, siblings, parents, uncles, aunts. Relationships that take many years too be meaningful. Of course the kids will have no idea what they are missing (and down play it), since all these peoples are now defacto strangers.
This was a horrific crime. By the way, the neighbors are saying Marvin was a wonderful guy.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/8/09
NO! Marvin and his wife were selfish. They had an obligation to their other children and the grand children THEY abducted. Ten years a go... when the grandkids were adults, they could have bit the bullet and set the reconciliation machine in motion.
GUILTY!
NO! Marvin and his wife were selfish. They had an obligation to their other children and the grand children THEY abducted. Ten years a go... when the grandkids were adults, they could have bit the bullet and set the reconciliation machine in motion.
GUILTY!
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/8/09
Well in that case I would have made a stink about Michael! But they didn't because they did not have an emotional attachment to him. He was the youngest and most vulnerable.
How did Michael turn out? Why were his brother and sister denied him, in his life? This guy Stuart makes a lot of sense!
Yeah, the parents were a bunch of Southern Baptist Satanists... Come on buddy! Your an enabler.
Well in that case I would have made a stink about Michael! But they didn't because they did not have an emotional attachment to him. He was the youngest and most vulnerable.
How did Michael turn out? Why were his brother and sister denied him, in his life? This guy Stuart makes a lot of sense!
Yeah, the parents were a bunch of Southern Baptist Satanists... Come on buddy! Your an enabler.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/8/09
Did Sandra Maple cut off contact with her other daughter?
If so... What mother would do that?
It's not like Nazis were hunting them in caves.
Did Sandra Maple cut off contact with her other daughter?
If so... What mother would do that?
It's not like Nazis were hunting them in caves.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/8/09
I have never seen anything like this.
As far as I am concerned. There are accessories to this crime that took place.
Lots of people knew about it and hid it, and participated in it.
Obstruction of Justice, Conspiracy....
You name it!
It is pretty obvious. There is a massive support system for Maple.
I have never seen anything like this.
As far as I am concerned. There are accessories to this crime that took place.
Lots of people knew about it and hid it, and participated in it.
Obstruction of Justice, Conspiracy....
You name it!
It is pretty obvious. There is a massive support system for Maple.
By: stuart on 2/8/09
Bobby and Christie are in what is called a double bind" right now. A no-win situation. They have lived their lives as only a component to an image projected by their grandparents. The grandparents image of heroism. A projected hologram that the grandparents to whatever society they had left to project to. If the kids contact their parents, they distroy tha grandpas superego. Kids are the keystone to the statue (false image) of the grandfather. If you are only part of a bigger thing, and if that bigger thing collapses, then you are gone as well, you cease to exist as well.
Bobby and Christie are in what is called a double bind" right now. A no-win situation. They have lived their lives as only a component to an image projected by their grandparents. The grandparents image of heroism. A projected hologram that the grandparents to whatever society they had left to project to. If the kids contact their parents, they distroy tha grandpas superego. Kids are the keystone to the statue (false image) of the grandfather. If you are only part of a bigger thing, and if that bigger thing collapses, then you are gone as well, you cease to exist as well.
By: stuart on 2/8/09
The kids are very aware that if the hologram the grandpa projects to society collapses, the grandfather may commit suicide. A narcisist has not much substance and cannot physically go on without his superego.
The only problem with this scenario (besides losing the grandpa) is that these abused and isolated grandkids have nothing else. Their whole pupose in life was to play a part in someone elses play. A building block to someone elses statue. To be objectified and isolated for grandpas selfish objectives. Frequent relocations, home-schooling etc. Not sexual abuse, but abuse all the same.
They cannot contact their parents OR THEIR BROTHERS. Not only because they are forced to choose sides by the backbiting Maples clan, but because they do not value themselves as individuals with their own worth. They have been indoctrinated with the belief that the only path to any self worth is to be a part of something bigger. Kind of like a cult member or a communist.
The kids are very aware that if the hologram the grandpa projects to society collapses, the grandfather may commit suicide. A narcisist has not much substance and cannot physically go on without his superego.
The only problem with this scenario (besides losing the grandpa) is that these abused and isolated grandkids have nothing else. Their whole pupose in life was to play a part in someone elses play. A building block to someone elses statue. To be objectified and isolated for grandpas selfish objectives. Frequent relocations, home-schooling etc. Not sexual abuse, but abuse all the same.
They cannot contact their parents OR THEIR BROTHERS. Not only because they are forced to choose sides by the backbiting Maples clan, but because they do not value themselves as individuals with their own worth. They have been indoctrinated with the belief that the only path to any self worth is to be a part of something bigger. Kind of like a cult member or a communist.
By: eagle50 on 2/8/09
Inthistwilight you say that Judge Corlew was glad the Maples took the kids. I've never heard Judge Corlew say that.
Also, the Maples left their other daughter who had children and the one in college. I don't know the one that was in college, but I did know the other daughter. This turned her world upside down. Thank you Stuart for telling us what this is called. I also believe that the "empty" nest was getting to the Maples and they had another chance to be "parents" to Christi and Bobby, but then they saw they were going to lose in court. Inthistwilight if you knew of the abuse and didn't report it yourself, why are you speaking out now. You should call the police department and give them your actual witness 'statement' of the abuse you personally witnessed. If you did not witness the abuse, then you cannot be a witness. So which is it, did you witness the abuse, or is your information an opinion like the rest of us? I think SanJose Charlie is right also. Marvin started thinking about what would happen to Bobby and Christi after he died. Let's let Dr. Phil do a show on this and just maybe he can help sort out all this soap opera. Inthistwilight, what was the cause of death for Sandra? I just wonder if she thought about her other two daughters and wondered if they were ok, if her grandkids were ok. There are so many unanswered questions. This is the worst in family behavior that I can recall. May God help them all.
Inthistwilight you say that Judge Corlew was glad the Maples took the kids. I've never heard Judge Corlew say that.
Also, the Maples left their other daughter who had children and the one in college. I don't know the one that was in college, but I did know the other daughter. This turned her world upside down. Thank you Stuart for telling us what this is called. I also believe that the "empty" nest was getting to the Maples and they had another chance to be "parents" to Christi and Bobby, but then they saw they were going to lose in court. Inthistwilight if you knew of the abuse and didn't report it yourself, why are you speaking out now. You should call the police department and give them your actual witness 'statement' of the abuse you personally witnessed. If you did not witness the abuse, then you cannot be a witness. So which is it, did you witness the abuse, or is your information an opinion like the rest of us? I think SanJose Charlie is right also. Marvin started thinking about what would happen to Bobby and Christi after he died. Let's let Dr. Phil do a show on this and just maybe he can help sort out all this soap opera. Inthistwilight, what was the cause of death for Sandra? I just wonder if she thought about her other two daughters and wondered if they were ok, if her grandkids were ok. There are so many unanswered questions. This is the worst in family behavior that I can recall. May God help them all.
By: stuart on 2/8/09
To inthistwilight: If all those members of your extended family have witnessed abuse but the local police and papers refuse to take down this information, I don't understand why you are blogging instead of the first hand eyewitnesses. I saw the posting by Lombo77 that listed as "evidence" that 16y/o Pauls eyes were downcast during a tv interview. Thats not enough for a reputible journalist or investigator to consider, although it seems to be the type of "evidence" that drove Mrs. Maples over the edge into Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome behavior. At least Lombo77 apologized in a later posting. Newspapers have higher standards than blogs in requiring references and sources. Its not that the Baskins are rich and bribing everyone, what a copout to say that. I think the case is closed here on the Maples apologists who have proven so far to have nothing much worthwhile to contribute but a bunch of nonsence.
To inthistwilight: If all those members of your extended family have witnessed abuse but the local police and papers refuse to take down this information, I don't understand why you are blogging instead of the first hand eyewitnesses. I saw the posting by Lombo77 that listed as "evidence" that 16y/o Pauls eyes were downcast during a tv interview. Thats not enough for a reputible journalist or investigator to consider, although it seems to be the type of "evidence" that drove Mrs. Maples over the edge into Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome behavior. At least Lombo77 apologized in a later posting. Newspapers have higher standards than blogs in requiring references and sources. Its not that the Baskins are rich and bribing everyone, what a copout to say that. I think the case is closed here on the Maples apologists who have proven so far to have nothing much worthwhile to contribute but a bunch of nonsence.
By: PCLady on 2/8/09
"You have put a lot of info out there on a subject you have no relation or in the know about so who should be standing on a pedal stool?"~inthistwilight
What???
"You have put a lot of info out there on a subject you have no relation or in the know about so who should be standing on a pedal stool?"~inthistwilight
What???
By: PCLady on 2/8/09
This is really becoming some pretty incoherent, nonsensical rambling. Sadly, it seems to be par for the course. None of this serves to help Christi and Bobby, or even Marvin, for that matter. On the contrary, the family mentality behind this horrible act is becoming ever more palpable with each subsequent post.
This is really becoming some pretty incoherent, nonsensical rambling. Sadly, it seems to be par for the course. None of this serves to help Christi and Bobby, or even Marvin, for that matter. On the contrary, the family mentality behind this horrible act is becoming ever more palpable with each subsequent post.
By: PCLady on 2/8/09
"Marv" and "Sandy" committed a felony. That's not a belief. That's a fact.
"Marv" and "Sandy" committed a felony. That's not a belief. That's a fact.
By: stuart on 2/8/09
To inthistwilight: I dont know the people involved in the Baskin case, but I know closely a very similar case. Every charactor is analagous down the line in both stories. We were unfortunately analagous to the Maples defenders NOT the Baskin defenders, so I know where you are headed. I wasn't the biggest fool I am glad to say, but there were things I believed on faith. Its hard to believe the impossible at first. Munchausen by Proxy is so bizzare its almost impossible to believe of your good friends or favorite relatives. It's only been documented now because of modern surveylance techniques. But in the Baskin case it is really easier to believe the MSBP scenario than one tenth of the stuff pointed against the Baskins, i.e. the bribing of officials and on and on.
If any of you have helped enable the Maples then you are co-conspirators and guilty of the most heinous child abuse.
To inthistwilight: I dont know the people involved in the Baskin case, but I know closely a very similar case. Every charactor is analagous down the line in both stories. We were unfortunately analagous to the Maples defenders NOT the Baskin defenders, so I know where you are headed. I wasn't the biggest fool I am glad to say, but there were things I believed on faith. Its hard to believe the impossible at first. Munchausen by Proxy is so bizzare its almost impossible to believe of your good friends or favorite relatives. It's only been documented now because of modern surveylance techniques. But in the Baskin case it is really easier to believe the MSBP scenario than one tenth of the stuff pointed against the Baskins, i.e. the bribing of officials and on and on.
If any of you have helped enable the Maples then you are co-conspirators and guilty of the most heinous child abuse.
By: PCLady on 2/8/09
inthistwilight~i've lived in murfreesboro for the last 27 years. your comments about the "law" here is woefully inaccurate.
inthistwilight~i've lived in murfreesboro for the last 27 years. your comments about the "law" here is woefully inaccurate.
By: stuart on 2/8/09
Here is a cut and paste from SanJoseCharlies link. It is only talking about the medical version of MSBP, but the sexual allegations version of this disease is pretty much the same. I capitalized the most relevant parts:
"If the child lives to be old enough to comprehend what's happening, the psychological damage can be significant. The child may come to feel that he or she will only be loved when ill and may, therefore, help the parent try to deceive doctors, using self-abuse to avoid being abandoned. And so, some victims of MBPS later become perpetrators themselves.
Getting Help for the Child
If Munchausen by proxy syndrome is suspected, health care providers are required by law to report their concerns. However, after a parent or caregiver is charged, THE CHILDS SYMPTOMS MAY INCREASE AS THE PERSON WHO IS ACCUSED ATTEMPTS TO PROVE THE PRESENCE OF THE ILLNESS. If the parent or caregiver repeatedly denies the charges, the child should be removed from the home and legal action should be taken on the child's behalf.
In some cases, THE PARENT OR CAREGIVER MAY DENY THE CHARGES AND MOVE TO ANOTHER LOCATION, ONLY TO CONTINUE THE BEHAVIOUR. Even if the child is returned to the perpetrator's custody while protective services are still involved, the child may continue to be a victim of abuse. For these reasons, it's always advised that these cases be resolved quickly.
Getting Help for the Parent or Caregiver
Most often, abusive Munchausen by proxy syndrome cases are resolved in one of three ways:
To get help, the parent or caregiver must admit to the abuse and seek psychological treatment. But if the perpetrator doesn't admit to the wrongdoing, psychological treatment has little chance of remedying the situation. Psychotherapy depends on truth, and MBPS perpetrators generally live in denial."
Here is a cut and paste from SanJoseCharlies link. It is only talking about the medical version of MSBP, but the sexual allegations version of this disease is pretty much the same. I capitalized the most relevant parts:
"If the child lives to be old enough to comprehend what's happening, the psychological damage can be significant. The child may come to feel that he or she will only be loved when ill and may, therefore, help the parent try to deceive doctors, using self-abuse to avoid being abandoned. And so, some victims of MBPS later become perpetrators themselves.
Getting Help for the Child
If Munchausen by proxy syndrome is suspected, health care providers are required by law to report their concerns. However, after a parent or caregiver is charged, THE CHILDS SYMPTOMS MAY INCREASE AS THE PERSON WHO IS ACCUSED ATTEMPTS TO PROVE THE PRESENCE OF THE ILLNESS. If the parent or caregiver repeatedly denies the charges, the child should be removed from the home and legal action should be taken on the child's behalf.
In some cases, THE PARENT OR CAREGIVER MAY DENY THE CHARGES AND MOVE TO ANOTHER LOCATION, ONLY TO CONTINUE THE BEHAVIOUR. Even if the child is returned to the perpetrator's custody while protective services are still involved, the child may continue to be a victim of abuse. For these reasons, it's always advised that these cases be resolved quickly.
Getting Help for the Parent or Caregiver
Most often, abusive Munchausen by proxy syndrome cases are resolved in one of three ways:
To get help, the parent or caregiver must admit to the abuse and seek psychological treatment. But if the perpetrator doesn't admit to the wrongdoing, psychological treatment has little chance of remedying the situation. Psychotherapy depends on truth, and MBPS perpetrators generally live in denial."
By: Sameera on 2/9/09
PCLady writes:
"This is really becoming some pretty incoherent, nonsensical rambling...none of this serves to help Christi and Bobby, or even Marvin, for that matter...."
Too right! I dread to think what the scenes at the trial, inside and outside the courtroom, are going to be like.
PCLady writes:
"This is really becoming some pretty incoherent, nonsensical rambling...none of this serves to help Christi and Bobby, or even Marvin, for that matter...."
Too right! I dread to think what the scenes at the trial, inside and outside the courtroom, are going to be like.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/9/09
Munchausen by proxy syndrome!
In the post above I made a mistake, it's about the grandmother.
It won't matter if Marvin goes to prison. Y'all will come and visit him and tell him he did the right thing.
Y'all pathetic creatures of anti-justice will take the place of his dead wife...
Reinforcing a fantasy of destruction... That never was.
Stuart, Marvin will not commit suicide, it's a mortal sin... and in a way this arrest will help him.
These morons who support him will take the place of his wife and reinforce the fantasy of abuse, that never was... or at least the fantasy was not at the level of a Satanic Coven or the KKK.
Good job Stuart, your right.
Munchausen by proxy syndrome!
In the post above I made a mistake, it's about the grandmother.
It won't matter if Marvin goes to prison. Y'all will come and visit him and tell him he did the right thing.
Y'all pathetic creatures of anti-justice will take the place of his dead wife...
Reinforcing a fantasy of destruction... That never was.
Stuart, Marvin will not commit suicide, it's a mortal sin... and in a way this arrest will help him.
These morons who support him will take the place of his wife and reinforce the fantasy of abuse, that never was... or at least the fantasy was not at the level of a Satanic Coven or the KKK.
Good job Stuart, your right.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/9/09
Munchausen by proxy syndrome!
Usually it's well liked women who poison their kids and then get to play the hero, trying to save them. In this situation it seems it's about the kids, but NOOOOOO, it's really about the mother, manipulating the system, getting sympathy from everyone (like y'all Maple supporters), even the child they poisoned gives support. These women go to doctors who sympathize with them, they tell them fanciful/bizarre lies about the situation, when the doctors catch on, the women find another doctor.
Grandma, Sandra Maple had this syndrome I believe. Stuart is right...
She is there to save the kids, Satanic rituals and sex abuse by BOTH parents... proved false. So, they abduct the kids and are now heroes...
It was never about the kids, it was about Grandma... The universe never revolved around those two kids even though it seemed too, it revolved around a mentally ill woman who took them to indulge her salvation fantasies. If you did not believe her view... She cut you off, even if you were her own flesh and blood child.
Marvin is a wuss.
Munchausen by proxy syndrome!
Usually it's well liked women who poison their kids and then get to play the hero, trying to save them. In this situation it seems it's about the kids, but NOOOOOO, it's really about the mother, manipulating the system, getting sympathy from everyone (like y'all Maple supporters), even the child they poisoned gives support. These women go to doctors who sympathize with them, they tell them fanciful/bizarre lies about the situation, when the doctors catch on, the women find another doctor.
Grandma, Sandra Maple had this syndrome I believe. Stuart is right...
She is there to save the kids, Satanic rituals and sex abuse by BOTH parents... proved false. So, they abduct the kids and are now heroes...
It was never about the kids, it was about Grandma... The universe never revolved around those two kids even though it seemed too, it revolved around a mentally ill woman who took them to indulge her salvation fantasies. If you did not believe her view... She cut you off, even if you were her own flesh and blood child.
Marvin is a wuss.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/9/09
Poison of the mind in this case.
Anyway, Marvin can reconnect with all of you felony supporters. Go visit him, admire him..
Tell him he did a good job and I would have done the same thing... He will eat it up, just like his wife would have.
Just one thing... It's a
LIE.
Poison of the mind in this case.
Anyway, Marvin can reconnect with all of you felony supporters. Go visit him, admire him..
Tell him he did a good job and I would have done the same thing... He will eat it up, just like his wife would have.
Just one thing... It's a
LIE.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/9/09
If your reading this. Christie/Jennifer - Bobby/Jonathan.
I am not a Baskin or related to them in any way. Your grandparents went too far.
It's a big deal what they did.
If your reading this. Christie/Jennifer - Bobby/Jonathan.
I am not a Baskin or related to them in any way. Your grandparents went too far.
It's a big deal what they did.
By: stuart on 2/9/09
You could look up the courtroom newspaper stories from old Salem yr 1620s (eyewitness to someone flying on broomsticks, to someone conversing with satan in form of raven et,) and you could tone down the stories to more believable contemporary stories and you have what the Maples did. Since we know that people cannot levitate etc., we now accept that the adults were manipulating the children of Salem. Currently, DNA tests have even proven that many adult men have falsely ACCUSED THEMSELVES of crimes they couldn't have commited, under pressure from overzelous police investigators. (i.e. false confessions, not to mention all the falsely accused turning up on death row)
I wish that modern psychologists and sociologists would do an extensive study of old Salem and figure out how everyones psychological profiles interacted to perpetrate that atrocity. The actual handwriting of those involved still exists on records which might tell something of their psychological profiles.
Can anyone put up a sample of Marvin and Mrs. Maples handwriting? That would be a real interesting handwriting analysis
You could look up the courtroom newspaper stories from old Salem yr 1620s (eyewitness to someone flying on broomsticks, to someone conversing with satan in form of raven et,) and you could tone down the stories to more believable contemporary stories and you have what the Maples did. Since we know that people cannot levitate etc., we now accept that the adults were manipulating the children of Salem. Currently, DNA tests have even proven that many adult men have falsely ACCUSED THEMSELVES of crimes they couldn't have commited, under pressure from overzelous police investigators. (i.e. false confessions, not to mention all the falsely accused turning up on death row)
I wish that modern psychologists and sociologists would do an extensive study of old Salem and figure out how everyones psychological profiles interacted to perpetrate that atrocity. The actual handwriting of those involved still exists on records which might tell something of their psychological profiles.
Can anyone put up a sample of Marvin and Mrs. Maples handwriting? That would be a real interesting handwriting analysis
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/10/09
Yeah, that's a good point. I do notice that inthistwilight and InTheMaplesDefense, deleted all their posts. That does make the non deleted posts left behind, seem disjointed and a little goofy. :) Certain posters certainly seemed to allude to having inside info. That would put them in a no win double bind themselves. My postings did get a little too angry and personal so I apologize for that. I suppose some of my anger was carried over from the earlier comments left at the original San Diego site. The site that upset Marvin so much, and caused him too talk. I don't know why he would be surprised though. This is the site that finally solved this case. http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jan/12/bn12kidnap104611-kidnapping-case/
Yeah, that's a good point. I do notice that inthistwilight and InTheMaplesDefense, deleted all their posts. That does make the non deleted posts left behind, seem disjointed and a little goofy. :) Certain posters certainly seemed to allude to having inside info. That would put them in a no win double bind themselves. My postings did get a little too angry and personal so I apologize for that. I suppose some of my anger was carried over from the earlier comments left at the original San Diego site. The site that upset Marvin so much, and caused him too talk. I don't know why he would be surprised though. This is the site that finally solved this case. http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jan/12/bn12kidnap104611-kidnapping-case/
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/10/09
The ironic thing is, this will work out very well for Marvin, his wife is gone. Now he can pick up where his old life left off. He ends up being reunited with old family members and friends, and at least he remembers them.
It's the abducted grandkids that get the raw deal, they lose everything they have known. Originally I said that Marvin should go to jail for life. Perhaps they can go easy on Marvin in exchange for a plea deal. Something along the lines of... If Marvin swears on a Bible to Christie and Bobby and all of society, that he was wrong and is sorry. And if the grandkids agree to meet their parents for a half dozen visits... Then perhaps they could show some mercy on Marvin with a minimal sentence and then make him distribute fliers of missing children. If you lock him up for a long time, you will just alienate the grandkids and it is important not to do that if possible. Of course, Marvin has shown massive contempt for the legal system, so this proposal may not be possible, even if the family asks for leniency.
The ironic thing is, this will work out very well for Marvin, his wife is gone. Now he can pick up where his old life left off. He ends up being reunited with old family members and friends, and at least he remembers them.
It's the abducted grandkids that get the raw deal, they lose everything they have known. Originally I said that Marvin should go to jail for life. Perhaps they can go easy on Marvin in exchange for a plea deal. Something along the lines of... If Marvin swears on a Bible to Christie and Bobby and all of society, that he was wrong and is sorry. And if the grandkids agree to meet their parents for a half dozen visits... Then perhaps they could show some mercy on Marvin with a minimal sentence and then make him distribute fliers of missing children. If you lock him up for a long time, you will just alienate the grandkids and it is important not to do that if possible. Of course, Marvin has shown massive contempt for the legal system, so this proposal may not be possible, even if the family asks for leniency.
By: stuart on 2/10/09
To SanJoseCharlie: If your comments seem disjointed, now that the Maples apologists took theirs down, perhaps you could take yours down that were left hanging, but leave the ones that can stand alone.
It's not just this site they have deleted their postings from though, so don't blame yourself. I looked at a couple of other sites as well and they have pulled out as well. I think they are starting to see the light. First is denial, then comes anger, then eventually acceptance, which must have spooked them. I think it sunk in that there have been thousands of Sandras and Marvins before, and that there is a name for this behavior and everyone is ahead of them and they may have been mistakenly helping a couple of well meaning but sick people, and now they are scared.
To SanJoseCharlie: If your comments seem disjointed, now that the Maples apologists took theirs down, perhaps you could take yours down that were left hanging, but leave the ones that can stand alone.
It's not just this site they have deleted their postings from though, so don't blame yourself. I looked at a couple of other sites as well and they have pulled out as well. I think they are starting to see the light. First is denial, then comes anger, then eventually acceptance, which must have spooked them. I think it sunk in that there have been thousands of Sandras and Marvins before, and that there is a name for this behavior and everyone is ahead of them and they may have been mistakenly helping a couple of well meaning but sick people, and now they are scared.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/10/09
Quote: "Investigators won't say who they are looking at, but do believe that others likely knew Maple was in California with the grandkids, but said nothing about it."
A lot of folks are deleting for another reason I am afraid. Stuart, there is too much cohesion among these Maple supporters across the boards and they are behaving in the same way, they overplayed their hand. Things like, collusion, conspiracy, obstruction, aiding and abetting... None of this stuff would surprise me.
Law enforcement is reaching the same conclusion the average readers here have arrived at. Even so called casual acquaintances of "John Bunting" are just too vociferous in their support. Everybody in the real world knows that nice guys can commit crimes. It looks like we have eyewitnesses to flying broomsticks.
Cut and paste this into your browser.
http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=9822908
Quote: "Investigators won't say who they are looking at, but do believe that others likely knew Maple was in California with the grandkids, but said nothing about it."
A lot of folks are deleting for another reason I am afraid. Stuart, there is too much cohesion among these Maple supporters across the boards and they are behaving in the same way, they overplayed their hand. Things like, collusion, conspiracy, obstruction, aiding and abetting... None of this stuff would surprise me.
Law enforcement is reaching the same conclusion the average readers here have arrived at. Even so called casual acquaintances of "John Bunting" are just too vociferous in their support. Everybody in the real world knows that nice guys can commit crimes. It looks like we have eyewitnesses to flying broomsticks.
Cut and paste this into your browser.
http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=9822908
By: stuart on 2/10/09
If they find anything on the rest of the maples then I hope they make examples out of the whole bunch of them.
Christie and Bobby couldn't be held as accountable if they obstructed justice and protected Marvin since they weren't raised in a sane household. But they are adults and they well know about the seriousness of SSN falsification for starters. They will certainly in the future be expected to tell their truthfull names to dmv etc. They might even be required to divulge who assists them in aquiring fraudulent papers.
There was a radical group of "child advocate" vigilantes (MSbP co-dependants)in northern california a few years ago who helped a crazy woman abduct her own kids. The guy who had worked his way into the vigilante group turned out to be a known child molester himself, and of course the kids mother was MSbP against the kids father. I wonder if some of them are in the same group.
If they find anything on the rest of the maples then I hope they make examples out of the whole bunch of them.
Christie and Bobby couldn't be held as accountable if they obstructed justice and protected Marvin since they weren't raised in a sane household. But they are adults and they well know about the seriousness of SSN falsification for starters. They will certainly in the future be expected to tell their truthfull names to dmv etc. They might even be required to divulge who assists them in aquiring fraudulent papers.
There was a radical group of "child advocate" vigilantes (MSbP co-dependants)in northern california a few years ago who helped a crazy woman abduct her own kids. The guy who had worked his way into the vigilante group turned out to be a known child molester himself, and of course the kids mother was MSbP against the kids father. I wonder if some of them are in the same group.
By: stuart on 2/11/09
Listed below is some insite on the situation if the information is accurate
http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wtvf/T0Q6SDKI9233DRGKS/p2
The parents were proven innocent. I used to go over to their house to play with Bobby and Christi.These were my friends. I have known this family longer than any of you. The grandfather wasn't the problem it was the grandmother. She was crazy and the grandfather listened to every word she said. That doesn't matter because he was in on it. The Maples were wrong. There is NO EXCUSE for kidnapping a child. The mother did not have contact with family at all. They have lived in trama for 20 years. It just really upsets me that people pass judgement on the parents, when the parents were found innocent.
Listed below is some insite on the situation if the information is accurate
http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wtvf/T0Q6SDKI9233DRGKS/p2
The parents were proven innocent. I used to go over to their house to play with Bobby and Christi.These were my friends. I have known this family longer than any of you. The grandfather wasn't the problem it was the grandmother. She was crazy and the grandfather listened to every word she said. That doesn't matter because he was in on it. The Maples were wrong. There is NO EXCUSE for kidnapping a child. The mother did not have contact with family at all. They have lived in trama for 20 years. It just really upsets me that people pass judgement on the parents, when the parents were found innocent.
By: stuart on 2/11/09
That posting, by the way was by "GodIsGood" on the listed web site.
That posting, by the way was by "GodIsGood" on the listed web site.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/12/09
Cool....
For more message boards here. Just click on the 2nd red link titled "Interactive" at the top left corner of this page. Then click on "Most Popular Stories". That will take you to many stories and the message boards beneath them.
Cool....
For more message boards here. Just click on the 2nd red link titled "Interactive" at the top left corner of this page. Then click on "Most Popular Stories". That will take you to many stories and the message boards beneath them.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/12/09
http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=240362&page=24
cut and paste!
http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=240362&page=24
cut and paste!
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/12/09
Lock him up. San Jose boozers should grow a brain!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_rZ2KJUK7s
Lock him up. San Jose boozers should grow a brain!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_rZ2KJUK7s
By: SOUTHSIDECA on 2/13/09
And San Jose Charlie should quit being an advocate for child abusers! Are you some kind of pervert as well?
And San Jose Charlie should quit being an advocate for child abusers! Are you some kind of pervert as well?
By: PCLady on 2/13/09
last time i checked, it was marvin and sandra maple who abused those children, stole them away from their loving family, denied them the love of their parents, siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins and grandparents. lied to them about who they are, and now they have to suffer in shock and fear. who's abusive??? i think it is you southsideca who should stop attacking this decent, law abiding family.
last time i checked, it was marvin and sandra maple who abused those children, stole them away from their loving family, denied them the love of their parents, siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins and grandparents. lied to them about who they are, and now they have to suffer in shock and fear. who's abusive??? i think it is you southsideca who should stop attacking this decent, law abiding family.
By: SOUTHSIDECA on 2/14/09
Okay Mrs. Baskin.
Okay Mrs. Baskin.
By: PCLady on 2/14/09
such utter nonsense.
such utter nonsense.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/14/09
I have a question for everybody. How much of this situation is tied to Marvin getting support from Church of Christ members? Is that where most of Marvin's defense is coming from on these boards? There seems a very dogged determination to defend Marvin no matter what (it's almost religious). I do realize that on another board somenone wrote that Sandra Maple had lapsed in her faith but it appears the family, at least on Sandra's side has ties to Church of Christ. Earlier it was reported that the Maples were very upset about Mark and Debbie Baskin going to a Southern Baptist seminary. Most people out there have their favorite denomination but would not get overly upset with a child deciding to do what Mark and Debbie did. If there is a strong tie to a strict Church of Christ presence in the Maple family, chances are many would automatically side with Marvin and his wife in their decision, no matter what. I once knew a girl who had a fiance who was Church of Christ... before you knew it, she was estranged from her family thinking they were all of the devil. Many Church of Christ members think they are the only Christians saved. To many of them, Debbie becoming a Baptist would be tantamount to serving Satan. Sandra Maple knew this it appears. If the Maples appealed to Church of Christ members, many would automatically assume Mark and Debbie were of the devil and they would give Marvin unconditional support in his decision to kidnap those kids when he figured out the system was on to their game. Like I said, it seems like the Maples have lots unconditional support. Maybe it's just a few family members posting under many aliases? Or is it a whole bunch of Church of Christ members who were bamboozled and conned by the Maples and actually believe the accusations against the Baskins concerning Satanism? Did these people help out Marvin and Sandy in anyway with their horrific crime? I just wonder how big a part, religion played in Marvin's unconditional support, when all the facts show he is guilty of a horrible crime.
I have a question for everybody. How much of this situation is tied to Marvin getting support from Church of Christ members? Is that where most of Marvin's defense is coming from on these boards? There seems a very dogged determination to defend Marvin no matter what (it's almost religious). I do realize that on another board somenone wrote that Sandra Maple had lapsed in her faith but it appears the family, at least on Sandra's side has ties to Church of Christ. Earlier it was reported that the Maples were very upset about Mark and Debbie Baskin going to a Southern Baptist seminary. Most people out there have their favorite denomination but would not get overly upset with a child deciding to do what Mark and Debbie did. If there is a strong tie to a strict Church of Christ presence in the Maple family, chances are many would automatically side with Marvin and his wife in their decision, no matter what. I once knew a girl who had a fiance who was Church of Christ... before you knew it, she was estranged from her family thinking they were all of the devil. Many Church of Christ members think they are the only Christians saved. To many of them, Debbie becoming a Baptist would be tantamount to serving Satan. Sandra Maple knew this it appears. If the Maples appealed to Church of Christ members, many would automatically assume Mark and Debbie were of the devil and they would give Marvin unconditional support in his decision to kidnap those kids when he figured out the system was on to their game. Like I said, it seems like the Maples have lots unconditional support. Maybe it's just a few family members posting under many aliases? Or is it a whole bunch of Church of Christ members who were bamboozled and conned by the Maples and actually believe the accusations against the Baskins concerning Satanism? Did these people help out Marvin and Sandy in anyway with their horrific crime? I just wonder how big a part, religion played in Marvin's unconditional support, when all the facts show he is guilty of a horrible crime.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/14/09
Also, the Marvin supporters seem to be very nasty in temperment in general. Marvin is suppose to be so wonderful...His supporters are just mean and ornery in general.
What's up with that! Like another poster wrote, if the Baskins were guilty, they would not have raised such a (non-stop) stink about their kids being taken from them, twenty years a go. They would not want them to be found. Marvin on the other hand could have ended this charade 10 years a go, when the grandkids became adults.
Perhaps some good can come out of this? At least now, the Baskins know their children are alive and healthy. Hopefully this case can be a catalyst too help find other kidnapped kids out there.
Also, the Marvin supporters seem to be very nasty in temperment in general. Marvin is suppose to be so wonderful...His supporters are just mean and ornery in general.
What's up with that! Like another poster wrote, if the Baskins were guilty, they would not have raised such a (non-stop) stink about their kids being taken from them, twenty years a go. They would not want them to be found. Marvin on the other hand could have ended this charade 10 years a go, when the grandkids became adults.
Perhaps some good can come out of this? At least now, the Baskins know their children are alive and healthy. Hopefully this case can be a catalyst too help find other kidnapped kids out there.
By: SOUTHSIDECA on 2/14/09
What does religion have to do with any of this? what in the hell are you talking about? Yes, I do get nasty in temperament when I have to read crap such as this. Ignorance is not bliss so knock it off.
What does religion have to do with any of this? what in the hell are you talking about? Yes, I do get nasty in temperament when I have to read crap such as this. Ignorance is not bliss so knock it off.
By: eagle50 on 2/14/09
SanJose Carlie you have gone off the "deep" end, haven't you? My great-great uncle wrote about the Church of Christ thinking they were the only ones going to heaven but that was over 80 years ago. I believe the Baptist and Church of Christ put that issue behind them 30 or more years ago. I have family members that belong to both and no one believes just one sect in going to heaven. That ship sailed a long time ago.
News Alert!! Marvin got out of jail. Someone posted his bail in CASH per Channel 5 news this morning!
SanJose Carlie you have gone off the "deep" end, haven't you? My great-great uncle wrote about the Church of Christ thinking they were the only ones going to heaven but that was over 80 years ago. I believe the Baptist and Church of Christ put that issue behind them 30 or more years ago. I have family members that belong to both and no one believes just one sect in going to heaven. That ship sailed a long time ago.
News Alert!! Marvin got out of jail. Someone posted his bail in CASH per Channel 5 news this morning!
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/14/09
But eagle50, the kidnapping took place 20 years a go, that's pretty close to 30 years a go and the Maples were pretty old, even back then. Most of their friends were pretty old too I bet. Maybe there were some diehards back then? Certainly some Church of Christ churches are much stricter then others. I remember 30 years a go in school, when a janitor got in trouble for telling my Christian friend that he was not going to make it to heaven because he was not Church of Christ.
SOUTHSIDECA, your making us look bad, how about changing your name to EASTSIDE or maybe STJAMESPARK? AGNEWSTATECA might be another excellent name choice for you. I like the last one.
I hope he did not get out on bail. I knew it was too low.
But eagle50, the kidnapping took place 20 years a go, that's pretty close to 30 years a go and the Maples were pretty old, even back then. Most of their friends were pretty old too I bet. Maybe there were some diehards back then? Certainly some Church of Christ churches are much stricter then others. I remember 30 years a go in school, when a janitor got in trouble for telling my Christian friend that he was not going to make it to heaven because he was not Church of Christ.
SOUTHSIDECA, your making us look bad, how about changing your name to EASTSIDE or maybe STJAMESPARK? AGNEWSTATECA might be another excellent name choice for you. I like the last one.
I hope he did not get out on bail. I knew it was too low.
By: PCLady on 2/14/09
actually, sanjose charlie, you've got a valid point. it is typically with the older generations but i still see it today within the community. my generation and younger are pretty laid back about it but some older people are downright vicious about it. and yes, they have no qualms about kicking you out of the family for crossing the line.
also, i'd read in someone's earlier comment here something alluding to the church of christ. how astute of you sanjose charlie to pick up on that.
actually, sanjose charlie, you've got a valid point. it is typically with the older generations but i still see it today within the community. my generation and younger are pretty laid back about it but some older people are downright vicious about it. and yes, they have no qualms about kicking you out of the family for crossing the line.
also, i'd read in someone's earlier comment here something alluding to the church of christ. how astute of you sanjose charlie to pick up on that.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/15/09
PCLady, one of the posters who is a Maple supporter deleted their earlier postings here. They wrote about being part of the same congregation as Marvin, they commented on him being a great guy. Combine that with the religious environment? It just kind of popped into my head.
It does appear that Marvin is liked in whatever environment he is in though. I worked with a young man who had a terrific personality and was well liked but he was a pathological liar. For the longest time I overlooked cracks in his stories, which I normally would not have done for an average person. Eventually he was exposed as a massive liar on many fronts... but the process took much, much longer then it normally should have. Everybody gave him the benefit of the doubt because of his very likable personality. Of course, Marvin might actually be deceived.
PCLady, one of the posters who is a Maple supporter deleted their earlier postings here. They wrote about being part of the same congregation as Marvin, they commented on him being a great guy. Combine that with the religious environment? It just kind of popped into my head.
It does appear that Marvin is liked in whatever environment he is in though. I worked with a young man who had a terrific personality and was well liked but he was a pathological liar. For the longest time I overlooked cracks in his stories, which I normally would not have done for an average person. Eventually he was exposed as a massive liar on many fronts... but the process took much, much longer then it normally should have. Everybody gave him the benefit of the doubt because of his very likable personality. Of course, Marvin might actually be deceived.
By: SOUTHSIDECA on 2/15/09
Gee, sounds like you're a horrible judge of charachter. Imagine that.
Gee, sounds like you're a horrible judge of charachter. Imagine that.
By: PCLady on 2/15/09
what is wrong with you southsideca? this is a very serious matter in which a horrible crime has been committed for 20 years! do you just enjoy being snarky and rude? because i have to tell you, if you are truly marvin's friend you are doing him great a disservice with your flippant sarcasm.
what is wrong with you southsideca? this is a very serious matter in which a horrible crime has been committed for 20 years! do you just enjoy being snarky and rude? because i have to tell you, if you are truly marvin's friend you are doing him great a disservice with your flippant sarcasm.
By: SOUTHSIDECA on 2/17/09
I'm sorry but I will have to disagree. This is a very serious matter, but for a crime that was COMMITED 20 years ago. You are right, child abuse should never be taken lightly. If you were reading all of the boards here you would notice that San Jose Charlie is the one who is the persoanl attacker. I'm just trying to get you people to see how rediculous your claims are; that the Maples would give up their entire lives as they knew it for a selfish reason? Really? That is pretty far out, kind of like the things that some people have been writing here. And you should take note that not only are you also being rude in your post but a personal attack at me makes you a hypocrite. Let's just stick to the topic at hand please.
I'm sorry but I will have to disagree. This is a very serious matter, but for a crime that was COMMITED 20 years ago. You are right, child abuse should never be taken lightly. If you were reading all of the boards here you would notice that San Jose Charlie is the one who is the persoanl attacker. I'm just trying to get you people to see how rediculous your claims are; that the Maples would give up their entire lives as they knew it for a selfish reason? Really? That is pretty far out, kind of like the things that some people have been writing here. And you should take note that not only are you also being rude in your post but a personal attack at me makes you a hypocrite. Let's just stick to the topic at hand please.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/17/09
Southside, why don't you address issues of substance? You see the facts about the bizarre accusations of Satanic ritual abuse, aimed at the prosecutors, therapists...etc. The accusations aimed at the Baskins, that they abused the children when they came to visit them. That would be a pretty nonsensical thing to do by the way. Marvin is a "nice guy" who adored his mentally ill wife and listened to her. You just can't deal with it... if your not just actually trolling. How can you say things like, there has to be truth behind every rumor? And yeah, people give up their lives (as they know it) for selfish reasons. The Maples preferred a new life with their grandkids, rather then the old life without them. It's a numbers game, a few percent of the people are like that, kidnapping by family members is not all that rare, even when the kids are not being abused. The Maples had a year and a half to bond with the grandkids and dote on them.
An example of something far less extreme, look at all the people who give up their old lives for selfish reasons, people dump their spouses all the time and run off with someone new, of course they may say they did it for love.
Southside, why don't you address issues of substance? You see the facts about the bizarre accusations of Satanic ritual abuse, aimed at the prosecutors, therapists...etc. The accusations aimed at the Baskins, that they abused the children when they came to visit them. That would be a pretty nonsensical thing to do by the way. Marvin is a "nice guy" who adored his mentally ill wife and listened to her. You just can't deal with it... if your not just actually trolling. How can you say things like, there has to be truth behind every rumor? And yeah, people give up their lives (as they know it) for selfish reasons. The Maples preferred a new life with their grandkids, rather then the old life without them. It's a numbers game, a few percent of the people are like that, kidnapping by family members is not all that rare, even when the kids are not being abused. The Maples had a year and a half to bond with the grandkids and dote on them.
An example of something far less extreme, look at all the people who give up their old lives for selfish reasons, people dump their spouses all the time and run off with someone new, of course they may say they did it for love.
By: SOUTHSIDECA on 2/18/09
I'm not convinced.
I'm not convinced.
By: SOUTHSIDECA on 2/18/09
Okay, AND, how come there is not one, not one Maple on the Baskins side? Let us not forget that it used to be Debbie MAPLE not Debbie Baskin....and not one of her relatives believes her? Are they all brainwashed too? Not anywhere have I seen anyone on that side of the family supporting her claim of innocence.
Okay, AND, how come there is not one, not one Maple on the Baskins side? Let us not forget that it used to be Debbie MAPLE not Debbie Baskin....and not one of her relatives believes her? Are they all brainwashed too? Not anywhere have I seen anyone on that side of the family supporting her claim of innocence.
By: stuart on 2/19/09
SOUTHSIDECA wroteon 2/7/09:
"Marvin did have a stroke, and he was told he was never coming home from the hospital. All of a sudden he got better and was able to go home. Sandra Maple had to teach him how to do math, what is left and right etc...That woman brought him almost all the way back to a full recovery. Marvin says she was a wonderful woman, that she also gave the kids a better education than any public school would have--they both went to college. He speaks very highly of her and I know that he misses her very much. "
SOUTHSIDE, You didn't see the medical files of Marvins doctors. Sandra could have exadurated Marvins stroke symptoms to glorify her role in "curing" him. It must have been hard for her all those years not to be able to make him and the grandkids too much sicker so she could play her exadurated "nurturing" role, but it was a sacrifice she had to make to remain incogito. Maybe she just gave Marvin a little too much antifreeze in his coffee
SOUTHSIDECA wroteon 2/7/09:
"Marvin did have a stroke, and he was told he was never coming home from the hospital. All of a sudden he got better and was able to go home. Sandra Maple had to teach him how to do math, what is left and right etc...That woman brought him almost all the way back to a full recovery. Marvin says she was a wonderful woman, that she also gave the kids a better education than any public school would have--they both went to college. He speaks very highly of her and I know that he misses her very much. "
SOUTHSIDE, You didn't see the medical files of Marvins doctors. Sandra could have exadurated Marvins stroke symptoms to glorify her role in "curing" him. It must have been hard for her all those years not to be able to make him and the grandkids too much sicker so she could play her exadurated "nurturing" role, but it was a sacrifice she had to make to remain incogito. Maybe she just gave Marvin a little too much antifreeze in his coffee
By: stuart on 2/19/09
A study was done years ago on one of the big molestation cases that was later disproven. Researchers compared the medical records of the mothers of the "victims" to medical records of the general population. Many of the medical records of mothers of "molestation victims" contained HUGE AND NUMEROUS LIES.
Lies such as "Yes doctor, Oh yes!! My mother DID die of pancreatic cancer! Please do exploratory surgery on my child to check for that, since you have exausted all other tests to find his ailment". Of course when investigators dug deeper the parents and grandparents hadn't even died at all. It was just a mother living out her soap opera life at her childs expense. Time and time again.
I would love for the psychological report of Sandra to be revealed at the trial.
A study was done years ago on one of the big molestation cases that was later disproven. Researchers compared the medical records of the mothers of the "victims" to medical records of the general population. Many of the medical records of mothers of "molestation victims" contained HUGE AND NUMEROUS LIES.
Lies such as "Yes doctor, Oh yes!! My mother DID die of pancreatic cancer! Please do exploratory surgery on my child to check for that, since you have exausted all other tests to find his ailment". Of course when investigators dug deeper the parents and grandparents hadn't even died at all. It was just a mother living out her soap opera life at her childs expense. Time and time again.
I would love for the psychological report of Sandra to be revealed at the trial.
By: SOUTHSIDECA on 2/19/09
Sorry Stuart but your theory is irrelevant here because I never knew Sandra Maple. It was Marvin who told me about this.
Sorry Stuart but your theory is irrelevant here because I never knew Sandra Maple. It was Marvin who told me about this.
By: Nellie on 2/20/09
"..I never knew Sandra Maple. It was Marvin who told me about this.." Clearly this woman still rules the roost - even from the grave! The fact that other people, who knew them from way back, have stated that her husband has, all his life, weakly given in to her wishes doesn't exonerate him from the part he played in this wicked abduction.
And knowing someone for the past four years means absolutely nothing - it is completely irrelevant to the issue. Just think of the number of times we hear the reaction: "He/she was always a lovely man/woman, would never harm a fly, doted on his mother/father/old granny.." et cetera - whenever some creep is convicted of a terrible crime.
Truth is, more often than not, we don't really know our neighbor at all. We see only what he or she chooses to show to us - perhaps we see only what we want to see.
"..I never knew Sandra Maple. It was Marvin who told me about this.." Clearly this woman still rules the roost - even from the grave! The fact that other people, who knew them from way back, have stated that her husband has, all his life, weakly given in to her wishes doesn't exonerate him from the part he played in this wicked abduction.
And knowing someone for the past four years means absolutely nothing - it is completely irrelevant to the issue. Just think of the number of times we hear the reaction: "He/she was always a lovely man/woman, would never harm a fly, doted on his mother/father/old granny.." et cetera - whenever some creep is convicted of a terrible crime.
Truth is, more often than not, we don't really know our neighbor at all. We see only what he or she chooses to show to us - perhaps we see only what we want to see.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/20/09
Nellie has a major point. Sandra Maple ruled, Marvin was a weak man who followed, SOUTHSIDE is doing the same. Sandra Maple in a defacto way, owns SOUTHSIDE, even from the grave she is punking him through the weak willed stooge Marvin (too dumb to realize he was punked by his mentally ill wife). Both are punked and owned by the woman who had all these Satanic conspiracy fantasies... that reached deep into the bowels of the corrupt Murfreesboro system, in cahoots with the Devil.
Bwwwaahhhhaahaahahahah (evil satanic laugh). Southside bought it..... LOL! You are a disgrace to the South Bay Area that invented the computer! Dummy! - Yep, that is an insult, now go get a beverage that will kill off a few more million of your brain cells. ;)YOu don't need em, your brain was fried a long time a go.
Nellie has a major point. Sandra Maple ruled, Marvin was a weak man who followed, SOUTHSIDE is doing the same. Sandra Maple in a defacto way, owns SOUTHSIDE, even from the grave she is punking him through the weak willed stooge Marvin (too dumb to realize he was punked by his mentally ill wife). Both are punked and owned by the woman who had all these Satanic conspiracy fantasies... that reached deep into the bowels of the corrupt Murfreesboro system, in cahoots with the Devil.
Bwwwaahhhhaahaahahahah (evil satanic laugh). Southside bought it..... LOL! You are a disgrace to the South Bay Area that invented the computer! Dummy! - Yep, that is an insult, now go get a beverage that will kill off a few more million of your brain cells. ;)YOu don't need em, your brain was fried a long time a go.
By: stuart on 2/20/09
San Jose Charlie, I don't think you are being very nice. (to Southside) He is probably the only poster who knows the person who turned Marvin in.
Also, concerning Marvin, people are one way as individuals and another way as a memmber of a group, and yet another way in a marriage. Think of Patty Hearst, or one of the Mansons, or most of the Jonestown cult. On half the true life crime dramas. Sometimes the sweetest people help the killer.
San Jose Charlie, I don't think you are being very nice. (to Southside) He is probably the only poster who knows the person who turned Marvin in.
Also, concerning Marvin, people are one way as individuals and another way as a memmber of a group, and yet another way in a marriage. Think of Patty Hearst, or one of the Mansons, or most of the Jonestown cult. On half the true life crime dramas. Sometimes the sweetest people help the killer.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/20/09
Stuart, you must be talking about the Hero who turned in Marvin. I hope they get a fat juicy REWARD. They did the right thing! May they be rewarded for their Righteousness.
Stuart, you must be talking about the Hero who turned in Marvin. I hope they get a fat juicy REWARD. They did the right thing! May they be rewarded for their Righteousness.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/20/09
If only we could transfer this poor guy to Rutherford County. They are quite remarkable in Murfreesboro, even in the heart of the Bible belt... they have an ongoing support staff of fellow devil worshipers, working to make life easier for guys like this.
Cut and paste: http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2009/02/20/news/local/45-fruitsofthedevil.txt
Sandra Maple was one of the few that was on to them. At least she saved Bobby and Christie, from this diabolical darkness, deep in the heart of Murfreesboro.
If only we could transfer this poor guy to Rutherford County. They are quite remarkable in Murfreesboro, even in the heart of the Bible belt... they have an ongoing support staff of fellow devil worshipers, working to make life easier for guys like this.
Cut and paste: http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2009/02/20/news/local/45-fruitsofthedevil.txt
Sandra Maple was one of the few that was on to them. At least she saved Bobby and Christie, from this diabolical darkness, deep in the heart of Murfreesboro.
By: SOUTHSIDECA on 2/21/09
Well I guess we will all find out the truth when it comes time.
Well I guess we will all find out the truth when it comes time.
By: SanJose_Charlie on 2/21/09
Here it is: Truth Time right now.
Marvin and wife decided to destroy their eldest daughter. But see how she responds to her father near the end of this youtube clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btestEuDIZc&feature=related
Here it is: Truth Time right now.
Marvin and wife decided to destroy their eldest daughter. But see how she responds to her father near the end of this youtube clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btestEuDIZc&feature=related
By: Nellie on 2/21/09
Thanks for the Youtube link - have just viewed the clip. So poignant, Mrs Baskin's response to her father. For, as well as wanting him to realise that actions have their consequences, after 20 years she just wants to see him again.
Marvin Maple should hang his head in shame. A weak and wicked man.
Thanks for the Youtube link - have just viewed the clip. So poignant, Mrs Baskin's response to her father. For, as well as wanting him to realise that actions have their consequences, after 20 years she just wants to see him again.
Marvin Maple should hang his head in shame. A weak and wicked man.
By: SOUTHSIDECA on 2/21/09
Give me a break. How much did they get paid for The Today Show?
Give me a break. How much did they get paid for The Today Show?
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